Am I a PP15 donk? (part 2?) [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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MVicuna

05-01-2005, 02:38 AM

Hi,

I felt this was a marginal hand in marginal position.

The Big Blind is kinda tight, other then that the key players in the hand are relative unknowns to me.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
4 folds, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls.

My thinking was to call and let MP2 define his hand so I can figure out how to play my hand. I was thinking of folding it and took around 5 seconds to decide to call.

MP2 calls do I put him on two big cards, middle pair, or just a blind steal.

Flop: (10 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP2 folds, Button 3-bets, Hero calls.

I check-raise the flop to clear out MP2. I was hoping I'd not get 3 bet. I hope I'm not drawing dead. :\

Turn: (8 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

w00t! I just picked up some spliting outs if I'm burried. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Was this a good place for a check-raise? My feeling was Button isn't folding any hand after he 3 bets two streets and I'd hate to get 3 bet again!

River: (10 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)

Whats my line here? Check/call and hope? fold to bet? I can't imagine any hand that bets the river here I beat. I know a read would be helpfull, but man, he'd have to be a real LAG to have a hand I beat here. The only guidence I can give you is he 3 bet out of his Big blind with 66 vs a MP open raiser, granted MP was a pretty loose open raiser and it was folded to him. I still think it shows he's overly agressive, but I still dont know if I should check/call.

Thanks,
MarkV.

lil feller

05-01-2005, 03:02 AM

Fold preflop. c/f the flop.

You must be running bad, cuz it seems like you're falling in love with a hopeless hand. If you're going to play cap PF to try and get MP2 out. AQ plays much easier with momentum and position. You're screwed on the position part, but capping and leading at least gives you momentum. If you get raised on your flop bet you have to decide whether or not you have enough legit outs to chase.

Me, personally, I don't see this flop. AQ is a hand I have no trouble folding for 2.33 cold out of position.

lf

stonecoldnuts

05-01-2005, 03:06 AM

I'd probably fold preflop and I wouldn't let one hand you saw him play be a deciding factor in this. You don't beat any hand that would be worth a 3 bet twice so you have to let it go.

Jdanz

05-01-2005, 03:59 AM

fold pre-flop, but i definetely peel one on the flop with the pot that big, i think a fold can be justified, but i'm sure as hell not gonna do it.

I think turn is an obvious fold unimproved (you're only beating Aj) really the question in my mind is what to do if you hit, bet or check/raise, check/call.

McOink

05-02-2005, 01:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The only guidence I can give you is he 3 bet out of his Big blind with 66 vs a MP open raiser, granted MP was a pretty loose open raiser and it was folded to him. I still think it shows he's overly agressive, but I still dont know if I should check/call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold preflop unless you really have a big bankroll and like to gamble. And I wouldn't classify someone based on one hand. It's very possible in that 66 hand as the BB, the BB was trying to isolate against the loose raiser. Maybe he knew that person tends to fold too much. Or maybe he likes to either fold or raise when he's in the big blind. Calling with 66 in the big blind against one player is a terrible play in my opinion. It's either a fold or raise depending on who you're up against and your table image.

Maulik

05-02-2005, 01:25 AM

wow, you're totally out of position to play this hand.

brilliant

McOink

05-02-2005, 02:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
wow, you're totally out of position to play this hand.

brilliant

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you're referring to raising with 66 in the BB (since you're replying to my post). I'm not defending that play. I'm just saying that someone could choose to do that if they're isolated against a loose raiser. I fold it since it's not worth it heads-up.

My main point was you can't judge a player on one hand (as someone else pointed out).

Maulik

05-02-2005, 09:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
wow, you're totally out of position to play this hand.

brilliant

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you're referring to raising with 66 in the BB (since you're replying to my post). I'm not defending that play. I'm just saying that someone could choose to do that if they're isolated against a loose raiser. I fold it since it's not worth it heads-up.

My main point was you can't judge a player on one hand (as someone else pointed out).

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur with what you're saying. However, I'm offreing my advice in regard to cold calling three bets with AQ out of position.

brilliant

MVicuna

05-02-2005, 01:02 PM

Hi,

Maybe I do have to much gamble in me, but I find it hard to fold AQ out of the blinds. I'd fold it for 3 cold against two EP raisers that I know are solid, but out of the blinds I'll play it against two LP raisers I'm not familiar with.

Maybe I'm running good with it so thats why I overplay it as I'm picking up more then my fair share of pots with it.

I'll not post results as nobody seems to think its even playable. I tend to disagree given the position of the raisers.

Thanks,
MarkV.

hockey1

05-02-2005, 01:19 PM

I'll throw in my $.02 and say the preflop call is much closer than all the other posters seem to think. Frankly, those posts make me wonder whether any of them play the Party 15 or whether they pay much attention to the other players, because there are ALL KINDS of hands that many Party 15 players would 3 bet from button that hero's hand is better than or as good as (namely 22-JJ, AJ, KQ, random suited crap, etc.). Being out of position all hand sucks, but hero has already posted 2/3 of a blind. I think this is a (close) call preflop.

From there I don't mind the c/r on the flop. C/r or c/c might be right depending on the villain, but with no read . . .

Fold the turn though. None of your outs are clean. Then again, because this is Party 15 there are many players who are 3 betting that flop exactly because they have something like TT or 44 or something and really aren't thrilled about letting hero peel another one off, in which case -- i.e., if both hero's cards are live -- it'd be a definite call. But without any read, and with the possibility that villain's holding QQ-AA or AK, folding's in order.

lil feller

05-02-2005, 02:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I do have to much gamble in me, but I find it hard to fold AQ out of the blinds. I'd fold it for 3 cold against two EP raisers that I know are solid, but out of the blinds I'll play it against two LP raisers I'm not familiar with

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't their position that matters nearly as much as its yours. I'd be way more inclined to call 3 cold with this hand on the button (not that I'd do that either) then I would to out of either blind. And if your going to play, cap preflop and represent something bigger then what you have.

lf