QJs -- my play looks like a flush draw, but it wasn't [Archive]

View Full Version : QJs -- my play looks like a flush draw, but it wasn't

Nick C

05-01-2005, 12:15 AM

The table as a whole was a little on the loose-passive side.

MP2 is a TAG though (14/8/2.2) after 311 hands.

MP1 is 42/12/0.9 after 50 hands.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (14.33 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (13.16 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (17.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 19.16 BB

Thoughts? What I'm wondering about most is the flop 3-bet, but feel free to comment on the other streets as well.

wrto4556

05-01-2005, 12:29 AM

It looks fine. I was questioning the turn check, at first, but really there's nothing you beat anymore..except JJ. That *is* why you checked, right?

Azhrarn

05-01-2005, 12:38 AM

I like it. I had to think about the flop 3-bet for a bit, but I think it's good. There are a number of hands you're ahead of that MP2 might raise with, considering his position and the size of the pot, and your backdoor draws give you some extra value. Even if you didn't 3-bet the flop, you'd probably want to bet the turn anyway if it bricked - which of course it didn't.

Turn and river are good.

Nick C

05-01-2005, 02:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It looks fine. I was questioning the turn check, at first, but really there's nothing you beat anymore..except JJ. That *is* why you checked, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Once the turn card fell, I figured what I was most likely holding was a collection of murky outs, and I was hoping to get to the river for just one bet.

I didn't like it when MP1 bet (and my check did sort of encourage that bet), but I was glad when MP2 didn't raise.

imported_leader

05-01-2005, 02:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It looks fine. I was questioning the turn check, at first, but really there's nothing you beat anymore..except JJ. That *is* why you checked, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Once the turn card fell, I figured what I was most likely holding was a collection of murky outs, and I was hoping to get to the river for just one bet.

I didn't like it when MP1 bet (and my check did sort of encourage that bet), but I was glad when MP2 didn't raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

If MP2 had folded the turn or river would you have called?

Nick C

05-01-2005, 02:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If MP2 had folded the turn or river would you have called?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I'd be doing it because of the pot size, though. I wouldn't expect to win the hand.

Piiop

05-01-2005, 02:40 AM

Not sure I really like the flop 3-bet. Are you betting the turn if it's a blank? If you do bet, what are you doing if he raises? Did you consider a stop-n-go?

Nick C

05-01-2005, 02:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure I really like the flop 3-bet. Are you betting the turn if it's a blank?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
If you do bet, what are you doing if he raises?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cursing and calling, I guess, with the plan of check-folding the river unimproved.

[ QUOTE ]
Did you consider a stop-n-go?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was more involved in a debate with myself whether or not I had the pot equity to 3-bet. I thought there was a good chance I was behind MP2, but with the other players still in, I thought the extra bets going in when I was ahead might make up for this.

So, no, I didn't really consider a stop-n-go. But I'm thinking now that maybe I should have. On the flop, I'm not that much of a favorite against, for instance, AK anyway.

Piiop

05-01-2005, 03:03 AM

I don't think you're gonna have the pot equity here (I didn't check it so I may be wrong). Even if you're ahead of the PFR, he will still usually have many outs against you. The board is str8 draw and flush draw friendly and all you have is TP3K with a backdoor str8 draw against 3 opponents. I think I'd go for a stop-n-go here on a blank or a check on a scare card and see what happens.

Nick C

05-01-2005, 03:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you're gonna have the pot equity here (I didn't check it so I may be wrong). Even if you're ahead of the PFR, he will still usually have many outs against you. The board is str8 draw and flush draw friendly and all you have is TP3K with a backdoor str8 draw against 3 opponents. I think I'd go for a stop-n-go here on a blank or a check on a scare card and see what happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a backdoor flush also, but all the same, I think I like your plan better than what I actually did.

Jules22

05-01-2005, 04:01 AM

interesting hand. i think i call the raise back to me on the flop and bet a safe turn. witrh a club draw straight draw over cards and aggression, i think i like to see a safer card before im ready to go to war. note, the king kind of sucks, i like how you played the turn and river very much. i guess i just dont like my hand enough to 3 bet the flop