30/60 river gaybet

[Nate tha' Great]

30/60 I have A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif in the BB and call a raise from the HJ. The HJ has stats like 25/13/1.7, I don't have a read on his play beyond this.

Flop 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif I check and he checks,

Turn 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif I call intending to gaybet any river except an ace.

[NLSoldier]

I don't like it. What do you make of his flop check? Why would he check the flop if he has an Ace? Seems like he would always bet the flop with any ace taht he would raise preflop with. So it looks to me like he either flopped a set or has something like QJ that totally missed the flop and is probably behind whatever he thinks you have.

Assuming he doesnt have an Ace, a river gaybet doesn't accomplish anything and I think check calling would be better.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
I call intending to gaybet any river except an ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

For value I hope?

[DpR]

Yeahm I Agree with other comments. In his shoes there is no way you fold anything that beats a7 here so what is the purpose? I can't buy that it is for value either since I think there are only a few hands (like smaller Ace) that he will call. Even worse, there is some chance he recognizes your gay bet and raises with a worse hand - then you ahve given the pot away. The tiny range of hands he calls a river bet that you beat about couteracts the chance he rasies with a worse hand - thus we gain nothing. I actually think we lose here (to check calling, which is painful) since he may bet hands you beat if bet to. Also there is a small chance he checks through a hand that beats you - thus we save there as well.

[lil feller]

If i'm doing anything in this pot, I'm c/r the turn. You have a great chance to get a better ace to fold, and he might fold a hand with outs thinking he's drawing dead. If your going to committ 2 bets to this pot, I'd do it with a c/r.

lf

[Chris Daddy Cool]

a gaybet to collect a bet from what hand?

a gaybet to fold out what hands?

[AceHigh]

You have a hand that can only beat a bluff, why don't you check/call the river and hope he is bluffing?

Your opponent won't fold many hands you don't beat and will call with almost all that beat you.

[gonores]

This works like 2% of the time. Gaybet indeed.

[Nate tha' Great]

Okay, I guess that nobody likes this.

I'm probably extrapolating too much from my own game too much, in that I'm more inclined to check behind with a big ace on the flop than something like QJ with less showdown value. I'm not particularly concerned about a monster here, which is IMO one of the differences between 15/30 and higher games.

My most common plays here are to check-call both big streets or to check-call the turn and check-fold the river, which can be pretty efficient against some predictable opponents. I *don't* like taking an aggressive action on the turn, as I think it's too transparent. The check-call IMO represents more strength, since a call can't be a bluff.

On the river, I'd put his hands at roughly 40% a bigger ace, 40% a worse overcard hand, and 20% some kind of oddly-played monster. I felt like it was worth investing the extra bet in an effort to pressure him to fold a bigger ace, especially since he'd probably have expected to be to check-call with a hand like what I had.

[glen]

I don't understand why you don't just checkcall the river, as I agree there si like a 40% he has some overcard hand like KQ-J9. the river gaybet IS going to get called by a better ace, as a lot of players will check a flop that they feel they have a chance of getting cr'ed on, but will do so in order to show the hand down as cheaply as possible. Also, if you gaybet here against anyone remotely trricky, they might find the line peculiar and raise you, which would suck, since now you would have a case for calling the river raise, but you would feel like a melvin for being in that situation. . .

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
I *don't* like taking an aggressive action on the turn, as I think it's too transparent. The check-call IMO represents more strength, since a call can't be a bluff

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
check-call the turn and check-fold the river, which can be pretty efficient against some predictable opponents

[/ QUOTE ]

If your opponents are observant, these two don't mix. I'm wondering how likely it is that a turn c/r will scream "I have A-nothing" in this situation. Seems more likely it would be read as a medium strength pair, or trips. I guess my point is you aren't folding out a better hand with your river bet, if thats your goal. AK has a tough time calling a turn c/r, and can't call a follow through bet if he missed.

lf

[Senor Choppy]

I think your read of his hand/line is right, but I'm not sure your line is going to work. I think he's committed to calling 2 big bets on the flop, and unless you do something weird or bump it to 3, you're going to a showdown.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
I think your read of his hand/line is right, but I'm not sure your line is going to work. I think he's committed to calling 2 big bets on the flop, and unless you do something weird or bump it to 3, you're going to a showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this analsysi is probably correct. I think gaybetting a paint card is pretty scary but if its a rag I think check-call is better. People don't fold big aces on raggy paired boards.
-James

[fearme]

if he checks on flop a lot of times that can be acehigh so i disagree with ppl that say it can't be ace high, turn does that mean u are checkcalling?? id checkcall the river as well since i dont think leading out can get hands to fold that beat u, or maybe fold, but im drunk so this is is nonsense