"Official" Live at the Bike thread (4/30) show

[Kevmath]

Tonight's show is scheduled to be the 200 min/max NL game, maybe tonight will be a better night overall then what most of last night's 500 game became before Men showed up. Also it'll be nice to not stare at dumber Brad Garrett for 4 hours and have Esther or some other good looking person instead. Also, make sure to vote (if you haven't already) in the poll I posted in an earlier thread. I doubt the small sample size will sway opinions, but at least it's something worth discussing.

Kevin...

[Kashie]

OK last night I won $1000 on my bet when will the show start.

I'll bet the works on 9:06.

any takers?

[Russ McGinley]

I'll take the under.

[Kashie]

OK Russ your on /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Russ McGinley]

I saw the cool flare at 9:03. I will PM you my address so you can mail me my money.

[VegasVixen]

9:03 here & counting... Looks good for kashie. BTW, whats "the works"?

[Russ McGinley]

Wow, 9:05! Hahahahahahahahahahaha I'm goin' to Vegas!

[Kashie]

$1000 Vixon, BTW Russ it starts with the introductioon
nuts

[Russ McGinley]

Turn your PM acceptance on so I can send you my address. I'll take a cashier's check.

[Kashie]

Ok Russ I lost by a hair!!

[VegasVixen]

I'm not seeing much Booze at the table... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok Russ I lost

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Also, PM on!!!11

[Russ McGinley]

n00b alert in seat 7!!! You can't sneak that crap by Greg.

[Kashie]

I have to wait to paid my $1000 from last night /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Russ McGinley]

Don't make me send Knuckles out there.

[Kashie]

Hey Bart the Mix is excellent on the table talk and the commentary . Tell the audio Mixer, Bravo!!

[Kashie]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't make me send Knuckles out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Relax Pal double or nothing on when they go to table talk.

I say hmm 11PM or over!

You on?

[Russ McGinley]

No way. Ship it!

[VegasVixen]

Any guesses if the AA holds up?.... Um.... Rebuy!

[Russ McGinley]

Yep. Sucks for KK.

[Kevmath]

Daniel in the 9 seat is on a roll so far, and unlike others who get hot early, probably won't blow his stack.

Kevin...

[VegasVixen]

OK Boys I'm shocked I haven't seen any comments about 1- The Cocktail waitress, or 2- Ad space on the head of Seat 1 guy... You guys slacking tonite? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Kevmath]

I'm sure Russ will come up with something.

Kevin...

[Russ McGinley]

I was busy with other stuff, but yes, she is my favorite cocktail waitress too.

[Kevmath]

My favorite hand - the winning hand.

Kevin...

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
My favorite hand - the winning hand.

Kevin...

[/ QUOTE ]

Winning hands are for suckers! Always get your money in with the worst of it because L@TB is RIGGED!!!

[Kevmath]

The curse of Bart seems to have struck the 5 seat, folding 10s on a 6 high board.

Kevin...

[Kashie]

He musta misread his 2 10's.

Thought he had 9 10??

[Russ McGinley]

Nah. He's just dumb. I'm sure his eyes are fine.

[Kashie]

Seems this type of game runs pretty smooth.

Nobody gets too loud and nobody gets that mad, and noone has any Balls. lol

[Russ McGinley]

We've been seeing this a lot lately. Limp, check, fold, repeat.

[Russ McGinley]

Seat 3 is hemmoraging money like it's cursed. So its either limp, check, fold, repeat or all-in, suckout, rebuy, repeat.

[Russ McGinley]

This game is a gold mine. Why call a huge raise preflop, spike a pair, and check it down? Why play the hand at all if you're just going to check it down on a 6-high board? Unreal.

[Jive Dadson]

Please turn up the table mic. Pretty please?

[Jive Dadson]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems this type of game runs pretty smooth.

Nobody gets too loud and nobody gets that mad, and noone has any Balls. lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Noone? Olde English for lunch time?

[Kashie]

Jive it's accually a decent mix.

[Russ McGinley]

Jana is confused. Someone send her Phil Gordon's tips book for celebrities or something.

[Jive Dadson]

The announcers are louder than the players. One way to do it is to use a limiter. Then if the announcers want to blast out the players, they can turn their mics up and when they talk the limiter will keep the signal from getting louder. Did that make sense? Radio call-in talk show hosts who want to be able to blast out their callers do it all the time.

[Russ McGinley]

Nice slowplay by seat 8.

IM

BE

CILE

[thedrunk]

"The 9 helps him, the 8 doesn't... that's what I was trying to say."

Yeah. mmmhmmmm....

[Jive Dadson]

I know this is not big news to the regulars here, but I am a lot more interested in hearing the players than getting poker lessons from the announcers. Here's the thing. How often do you get a chance to hear weak to mediocre players' blather WHILE LOOKING AT THEIR HOLE CARDS? There's a wealth of verbal tell information buried beneath the announcers' railing against slow-plays.

[Edit] It seems to be getting better.

[Kashie]

[ QUOTE ]
The announcers are louder than the players. One way to do it is to use a limiter. Then if the announcers want to blast out the players, they can turn their mics up and when they talk the limiter will keep the signal from getting louder. Did that make sense? Radio call-in talk show hosts who want to be able to blast out their callers do it all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand this, Iv'e been in the recording Studio busness for 30 years.

I mentioned before that they need some type of limiters.
Give them time.

[Russ McGinley]

Looks like they are definitely making an effort to turn up the mic when the players are talking. Good idea. I'd rather them do this and just get rid of the whole table talk segment.

[Russ McGinley]

9d 8d 50.71 49.29 0.00 50.70% 1.03:1
Qc Jc 49.29 50.71 0.00 49.30% 0.97:1

That's about as small a favorite as you can be.

[bluffski]

The comment that the lady announcer made about this game being a game of small edges is totally ridiculous. This is a no limit ring game NOT LIMIT and NOT A TOURNAMENT. If you are playing against opponents whom you think you have an advantage over you are not going to be putting your money in with a SMALL EDGE where you can lose YOUR ENTIRE STACK. You are going to wait for a larger edge farther down the road when you know you can get paid off large and with less risk since the weaker opponent is going to pay you off. Please stop shooting from the hip in your commentary, your starting to remind me of Norman McCloud (wsop announcer) who is completely clueless.

[Corey]

[ QUOTE ]
The comment that the lady announcer made about this game being a game of small edges is totally ridiculous. This is a no limit ring game NOT LIMIT and NOT A TOURNAMENT. If you are playing against opponents whom you think you have an advantage over you are not going to be putting your money in with a SMALL EDGE where you can lose YOUR ENTIRE STACK. You are going to wait for a larger edge farther down the road when you know you can get paid off large and with less risk since the weaker opponent is going to pay you off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gambling theory 101. You failed it. Miserably.

[Kevmath]

[ QUOTE ]
Please stop shooting from the hip in your commentary,

[/ QUOTE ]

Jana and Bart don't have the advantage Norman Chad has, he has the luxury of watching the action on tape, so he can work in the jokes.

Kevin...

[Kevmath]

BTW, what are the odds Bart's running to a 20/40 game right now? If the show goes to 3 hours a night, he'll have to save that play til before or after the show.

Kevin...

[bluffski]

Small edges are taken by casinos in amounts not coming close to the entire bankroll (maybe .0000001 percent of their entire bankroll is gambled) This is not the case in no limit poker

[Russ McGinley]

ROFL

What an idiot, seat 3. He's lucky his cards didn't get mucked.

"I just turned them up!"

F'n moron.

[Kevmath]

It looked like the 3 seat threw the cards into the muck.

Kevin...

[Russ McGinley]

Ahh, the power of knowing what your hand is.

[Mark1808]

WTF?? Was seat 3 all in even? Did he check the river?

[bluffski]

Norman Chad cracks jokes because it hides his very little knowledge about poker. Hes clueless.

[Corey]

[ QUOTE ]
Small edges are taken by casinos in amounts not coming close to the entire bankroll (maybe .0000001 percent of their entire bankroll is gambled) This is not the case in no limit poker

[/ QUOTE ]

I repeat: Gambling Theory 101. You failed it. Miserably.

You are not risking your bankroll, you are risking your buy in. You can't play scared poker.

[Russ McGinley]

It looked like seat 3 check-raised the flop, check-called the turn, then check-called the river, then threw his cards face up and they landed right in front of the muck, to which the dealer immediately turned them face down and into the muck. Seat 3 is unbelievably lucky that the other players noticed.

Just ridiculous.

[Mark1808]

They should have a chat room for Live at the Bike, updating the page sucks!

[Kevmath]

[ QUOTE ]
They should have a chat room for Live at the Bike, updating the page sucks!

[/ QUOTE ]

I respectfully disagree, the chatroom wouldn't help the show at all, since they'd have no realistic way to get feedback in a relatively timely manner. Combine that with the number of troublemakers most chatrooms seem to have, and it's a recipe for disaster.

Kevin...

[bluffski]

If that would be the case people would be shoving all in preflop with ak or pairs etc because it is likely that they have a small edge. This would happen constantly even if they had thousands of dollars on the table and every1 had them covered. However, this isnt the case in NO LIMIT POKER because the pro doesnt take a small edge, instead he uses his skills to know when he has a larger edge and sticks his money in then. Continuning this discussion with you tells me that you to have no clue.

[jana]

ok. i do my best to rarely respond to this thread as it does nothing but fuel the fire but this time two things came up that should be noted.

1) neither i nor bart (nor any of our commentators quite frankly) are "idiots". the show is LIVE, we react to things quickly (because we HAVE to since the avg hand is less than 2 mins and then we move on to the next hand) so when we say something like "holdem is a game of small edges and you can't afford to give free cards" we are obviously referring to the fact that EVEN when you flop TOP SET there are a lot of combinations taht you DON"T SEE (like runner runner straights) where you either lose or chop the pot. so taking one line out of context and running with it is just meaningless.

2) the hand where 8d 9d vs Jc Qc were heads up...i still don't' understand how you dispute that the 89 has 2 eights, 3 9s AND 9 diamonds for a total of 14 outs, TWICE (28/47 roughtly equals 60% to win the hand)...

[Mark1808]

Entire stack does not equal whole bank roll. It is a game of edges, depends of what your definition of small is. I don't mind playing aggressively when I am 55 - 45. Now, if I've built up a large stack I may not be willing to commit the whole stack.

I've only watched a few times but I know I liked the announcers last night and I don't see a problem with them tonight.

[bluffski]

Sure if your short no problem but when your deep its a whole new story

[Kevmath]

Seat 2 seems to be Daxonovitch, who finished 2nd in a tournament there on Sunday, and had discussed the events that happened at the final table in this thread. (http://tinyurl.com/779m3) Seems he got a haircut with his 28k.

Kevin...

[Russ McGinley]

Hi Jana.

1. Don't yell at me, yell at bugman! I didn't call you anything but "confused" /images/graemlins/smile.gif (which you were on that T8o hand with the Q-J-T-x board.

2. I ran the numbers, twice even:

pokenum -h qc jc - 8d 9d -- 8c qd 7d
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 8c Qd 7d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qc Jc 488 49.29 502 50.71 0 0.00 0.493
9d 8d 502 50.71 488 49.29 0 0.00 0.507

8d 9d is a 50.71-49.29 favorite in that spot.

[Mark1808]

[ QUOTE ]
If that would be the case people would be shoving all in preflop with ak or pairs etc because it is likely that they have a small edge. This would happen constantly even if they had thousands of dollars on the table and every1 had them covered. However, this isnt the case in NO LIMIT POKER because the pro doesnt take a small edge, instead he uses his skills to know when he has a larger edge and sticks his money in then. Continuning this discussion with you tells me that you to have no clue.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would not have an edge shoving all in with AK because only hands that had an edge would be likely to call. Men the Master called an all in last night with open end straight draw, overcard and runner flush draw. He put the guy on a pair and was slight favorite if that was the case. he knows how to play.

[bluffski]

thank you for the response, it shows you care about the game and what you are saying. I agree, taking one line out of context is not a good thing to do, however, sometimes you should think about what you've said and look at both sides of why someone might or might not do something during the game. There are different levels in thinking about this game. By the way looking at my post earlier I did come off a little harsh, however, I didnt call you an idiot, I called Norman Chad clueless.

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
1) neither i nor bart (nor any of our commentators quite frankly) are "idiots".

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see where anyone called either of you an "idiot" in this thread.

[Mark1808]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Jana.

1. Don't yell at me, yell at bugman! I didn't call you anything but "confused" /images/graemlins/smile.gif (which you were on that T8o hand with the Q-J-T-x board.

2. I ran the numbers, twice even:

pokenum -h qc jc - 8d 9d -- 8c qd 7d
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 8c Qd 7d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qc Jc 488 49.29 502 50.71 0 0.00 0.493
9d 8d 502 50.71 488 49.29 0 0.00 0.507

8d 9d is a 50.71-49.29 favorite in that spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

She, nor the players have an odds calculator, she can only add outs multiply by 4 and subtract a couple. She assumes all the outs are good, evidently they are not. That's poker.

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
She, nor the players have an odds calculator, she can only add outs multiply by 4 and subtract a couple. She assumes all the outs are good, evidently they are not. That's poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know, but Jana told Bart she was sure the 89s was a favorite, Bart said it was a slight favorite, Jana disagreed, I posted the numbers, Jana said she couldn't figure it out, I posted it again. What she assumes is that if 89s spikes two pair on the turn, it is the best hand now, but can still be beat by QJs resucking a Q or a J on the river, which is why they aren't "solid" outs.

[Mark1808]

Jumping over every small mistake the announcers make is a bad idea. This will tend to inhibit them, they all play a lot of poker and represent the type of players we will play against.We all make mistakes, it is helpful to hear both the players and announcers.

[Kevmath]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) neither i nor bart (nor any of our commentators quite frankly) are "idiots".

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see where anyone called either of you an "idiot" in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

The first mention of "idiots" was Russ' comment about the 3 seat throwing his full house nearly into the muck.

Kevin...

[Mark1808]

This is my last announcer kiss ass post. The WSOP takes 6 months to edit and come out with a show, WPT is like 2 months. These guys are essentially live and I believe I have learned far more from these broadcasts than WSOP or WPT and a lot of that is the announcers.

[gojacketz]

Good grief, first hand I see - seat 9 slowplays AA before the flop against three players.

You gotta love it.

Gojacketz

[Russ McGinley]

Yeah you missed the guy who nearly threw away Kings full to a flush because he couldn't read the board right.

And the guy who flops a set of jacks and slowplays all the way to the river, which completes a straight on the board and he has to chop with AK.

[Mark1808]

[ QUOTE ]
Good grief, first hand I see - seat 9 slowplays AA before the flop against three players.

You gotta love it.

Gojacketz

[/ QUOTE ]

Flat calls the flop too! I can see why my stats look good in live games. I can't believe how some people play. Facinating.

[gojacketz]

Haha, I heard them talking about that: Oh, I knew what I had.

I need to find some games like this one in Tunica to buy in.

Gojacketz

[Russ McGinley]

Yeah, "I knew what I had", that's why he check-called the river with the 2nd nuts.

[gojacketz]

Monday through Friday would be sweet, or Monday through Thursday. Weekends are for drinking beer...

Gojacketz

[Mark1808]

[ QUOTE ]
Haha, I heard them talking about that: Oh, I knew what I had.

I need to find some games like this one in Tunica to buy in.

Gojacketz

[/ QUOTE ]

LA is the king of poker baby! Just got back from Bellagio, much tighter games, still good but LA has the best games. Lot of people who like to gamble, have money and don't know how to play.

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
Weekends are for drinking beer...

Gojacketz

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't do both?

[Mark1808]

M - F would be great, 3 hours is good too.

[gojacketz]

Oh man, I spent quite a bit of time in San Jose and San Francisco the past two years for work - incredible games. The 6/12 games had an average of 8 players to the flop. Bay 101 is sweet.

Haven't been to LA, but I have a buddy who says the Commerce and Bike are outstanding.

I was in Vegas for March Madness, incredible time to play cards out there.

Gojacketz

[Kashie]

[ QUOTE ]
M - F would be great, 3 hours is good too.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was 3 hours there would be a half hour to go.

Is it enough?

[pc in NM]

[ QUOTE ]
M - F would be great, 3 hours is good too.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto

[Kevmath]

In the poll I posted earlier today, the way the schedule is now is in the lead, but there is a lot of support for the Monday-Friday schedule. 3 hours a night should be the minimum length of time for the program, since you can get a chance of having a flow to it. If it also eliminates the 30 minutes of "table talk", it's an added bonus.

Kevin...

[Corey]

[ QUOTE ]
Monday through Friday would be sweet, or Monday through Thursday. Weekends are for drinking beer...

Gojacketz

[/ QUOTE ]

Sunday - Thursday. Give us the extra day to have a bitching contest on the boards.

[gojacketz]

Someone wake seat 4 up...

Gojacketz

[Kevmath]

[ QUOTE ]
Give us the extra day to have a bitching contest on the boards.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems every night the show's been on lately, it turns into a bitchfest for a period of time.

Kevin...

[Russ McGinley]

He needs an unlit cigarette, or Russ Hamilton's table fan from last night.

[gojacketz]

Oops, two pair no good... Seat two go home now.

Gojacketz

[Jive Dadson]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh man, I spent quite a bit of time in San Jose and San Francisco the past two years for work - incredible games. The 6/12 games had an average of 8 players to the flop. Bay 101 is sweet.

Haven't been to LA, but I have a buddy who says the Commerce and Bike are outstanding.

I was in Vegas for March Madness, incredible time to play cards out there.

Gojacketz

[/ QUOTE ]

I was at Bay 101 this afternoon. I sweated two 6/12 games while I was waiting. One game typically saw 4 or 5 players seeing the flop for a raise. The other game was tight as a drum and had four players who were not idiots. Guess which game I drew in to. I sat down and asked for a table change.

[Kevmath]

I think it's time to give some loyal viewers those neato hats as well.

Kevin...

[Kashie]

Yeah I'll take a hat /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[gojacketz]

Are the games tighter on weekends? I mostly played during the week in the evenings - and "tight" was not a word that could ever be spoken when I was there.

Oh man, I could deal with a couple of double doubles fron In N Out Burger right now, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Gojacketz

[Mark1808]

When and where does seat 3 play??

[Jive Dadson]

I watch on my office computer after work. I probably shouldn't say this, but I won't be watching if they switch times. (Bart thinks ... "That cinches it. We're changing the times.")

[Russ McGinley]

That's all Denny needed to hear, that's for sure.

[bluffski]

Ok someone buy shots for the table and beer chasers

[Mark1808]

I would say the more hours the better, I am going to just sign up for the archives anyway so it doesn't matter when they are on.

[Jive Dadson]

[ QUOTE ]
Are the games tighter on weekends? I mostly played during the week in the evenings - and "tight" was not a word that could ever be spoken when I was there.

Oh man, I could deal with a couple of double doubles fron In N Out Burger right now, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Gojacketz

[/ QUOTE ]

Donnie: "Those are good burgers Walter."
Walter: "Shut the **** up Donnie."

[Kevmath]

I think it's going to stay 9pm-1am, they're just going to change the days they actually air.

Kevin...

[Mark1808]

Guy raises with KJos? I can't believe the starting hands these guys play. Is it just because they know they are on the broadcast?

[bluffski]

Please dont make it a 3 hour show, some of the best times are in the 4th hour when the stacks get deeper. The deeper stacks mean possibly bigger pots and action i like to watch.

[Kevmath]

I think Denny needs to join this game ASAP to save the show tonight.

Kevin...

[Jive Dadson]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's going to stay 9pm-1am, they're just going to change the days they actually air.

Kevin...

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 6-10PM. What are you? Some kind of a yankee?

[Mark1808]

[ QUOTE ]
Please dont make it a 3 hour show, some of the best times are in the 4th hour when the stacks get deeper. The deeper stacks mean possibly bigger pots and action i like to watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent point!

[gojacketz]

Man, is this table gonna break soon?

Gojacketz

[-Skeme-]

The king is here.

[Jive Dadson]

I wonder if they could hang a mic from the ceiling. That and a limiter, and they'd be set.

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
Guy raises with KJos? I can't believe the starting hands these guys play. Is it just because they know they are on the broadcast?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's because most people suck at poker.

[-Skeme-]

$200? Bah.

[bluffski]

Great job of keeping up with the cards, size of raises etc... not sure what you have done to keep up but its working.

[-Skeme-]

Not to be rude, but watching games this low are boring. It's not fun watching people you're better than. And I'm better than everyone so I guess it doesn't really matter. *watches*

Bart, why would you check-raise with an OESD OOP? When you're called and miss your draw you're screwed. Draws suck OOP.

[Russ McGinley]

Who are you, Bill Fillmaff?

[Mark1808]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Guy raises with KJos? I can't believe the starting hands these guys play. Is it just because they know they are on the broadcast?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's because most people suck at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is just amazing. The guy just called heads up with 4 x BB raise with 78s. The raiser had qjos. I can easily see watching this why playing tight and aggressive is going to pay off. Most of these guys call with medium to low aces.

[-Skeme-]

I'm possibly the greatest NL player since the kid Ungar. Not as good as Fillmaff, but good.

[Mark1808]

[ QUOTE ]
Who are you, Bill Fillmaff?

[/ QUOTE ]

Best post of the night!

[-Skeme-]

Wait, what are the stack sizes? Is this a $200 minimum buyin, but no max buyin? What are the blinds?

[Corey]

[ QUOTE ]
It is just amazing. The guy just called heads up with 4 x BB raise with 78s. The raiser had qjos. I can easily see watching this why playing tight and aggressive is going to pay off. Most of these guys call with medium to low aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

If live at the Bike has taught me anything, it's I give too much respect to my opponents.

[young nut]

man, these players need to get a few drinks in em or something. They seem about as lively as Al Gore on sleeping pills.

[Russ McGinley]

Ok this game is dead. I'm out.

[VeryTnA]

how long are the waiting list to play on the "live" table during showtime?

[BartHanson]

Hello everyone. Couple of hands:


S8 Jh Js
S2 Ah Ks

Flop Jc 7d 9s

Turn 8d

River td

JJ raised to 25 preflop and got 5 callers. JJ check called S2's $50 bet on the flop. JJ Check called s2's $75 bet on the turn. River went check check and the pot was split.

I don't know if I have to analyze this hand because you all know what I am going to say....

Another Hand:

S4 Qs 9s
S5 2h 7h

Flop 9d 4h 7c

Turn Th

River Qh

Pot was limped 6 way, S5 has position on S4. Q9 leads out for $15 S5 raises to 30 S4 calls.
Turn goes check check.

River S4 bets $70 S5 calls.

I think that Roger missed a huge value raise here on the river. I'm ok with him raising S4 on the flop but when he pickes up the flush draw on the turn he checks. I think this is the time to bet even bigger. Now river makes S5 a backdoor flush, I very hard hand to put him on. The chances that someone else has a flush r very slim. I would have like to have seen him raise here maybe to $160-$200 total on the river. Roger most likley would have gotten all of s4's money as he made Queens up at the end.

Please join us on Wednesday for our 30-60 limit game with special guest Elix Powers.

Bart

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]

Please join us on Wednesday for our 30-60 limit game with special guest Elix Powers.

Bart

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay so I know what I'm doing on Wednesday then.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kashie]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm possibly the greatest NL player since the kid Ungar. Not as good as Fillmaff, but good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you beat Hermit the Frog?

I 'd like to see that. lol