KK against the big stack as 2d biggest stack?

[JoshuaMayes]

20+2 on party 6 players remain. Blinds are 50/100. I have a stack of ~1800. The big stack is to my immediate right with ~2600. Big stack has built his stack by playing like a complete donkey and sucking out a few times, e.g. overcalling an all-in with pocket 66 on a board of QQ8 and spiking a 6 on the river. I have built my stack solely by making good reads and calls on the aggressive big stack. I am dealt KK OTB. Everyone folds to the big stack who raised to 450. Given his play, I assume he will likely call if I push. Whats my play? Should I call and wait to see if an A flops or should I push now?

[Voltron87]

if you think he will call why would you not push?

also, use HHs and the hand convertor or make your posts clearer.

[JoshuaMayes]

[ QUOTE ]
if you think he will call why would you not push?

also, use HHs and the hand convertor or make your posts clearer.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the hand converter?

[Voltron87]

this thing converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

it takes the HHs from the sites and makes them much more readable.

back to your question, if you have KK, and think villain will call you all in here, why would you not go all in?

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I have trouble knowing when to move all-in also, but since you say he plays garbage, and his bet is 4 1/2x BB that indicates he does not want any callers, moving in pre-flop w/ KK seems like the right play... If he had AA would he bet so aggressively... probably not and if he calls and draws out, well that is just poker and in the long run you're supposed to win more than you lose in this situation.

[JoshuaMayes]

[ QUOTE ]
this thing converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

it takes the HHs from the sites and makes them much more readable.

back to your question, if you have KK, and think villain will call you all in here, why would you not go all in?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the link. Anyway, the reason I debated waiting was because I was sure I could outplay him after the flop. If an A came, I could get away from the hand, but he would pay me off if he had just about any pair on the flop, even a pocket underpair. I had the second biggest stack, so I wasn't in any danger. If I push, and he has an A, 30% of the time, I am out. Many of the times an A doesn't flop, he will double me up any way, and other times I will win whats in the pot without haveing to dodge any out. So, those were my reasons for thinking a call might have been better than a push in this spot. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the link. Anyway, the reason I debated waiting was because I was sure I could outplay him after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why bother when you can just outplay him preflop? By waiting for the flop you lose a lot of hands you should win (anytime he bluffs you off when an A comes, or those few times an A does come but you spike a K to win) you also lose a lot of bets when he has a smaller pair and you can't get him all-in becasue of overcards.

[Degen]

It is really a judgement call. But this...

[ QUOTE ]
Should I call and wait to see if an A flops

[/ QUOTE ]

Should never be an option against this guy, or most other players. Say AK is behind you and he raises and then you call. AK might very well decide to get in there or push, but if you re-raise AK SHOULD be folding this, and though going up against two players seems like a good thing, it is really not, with this hand you want to isolate and double through the big stack.

I would suggest making a raise, though not moving in...make it 1100 or so, then he's likely to push back....but pushing is certainly a viable option.


Andre

[KenProspero]

I guess it depends on what you think of Villian.

What do you think he's holding to make this bet? Pocket Pair? Two big cards? Something less?

Let's assume he's not holding AA (in which case, you're probably screwed, but that's poker).

Will he fold to your push (unlikely from what you say).

If he's holding a pocket pair lower than yours will he call your post-flop push (likely from what you say).

If he doesn't have an A, what will he do if an A flops? Will he call your all-in bet? (If so, I want to know where he's playing). Will he bet big and represent the A (in which case, he's likely to steal the pot from you.

Similarly, if an A doesn't flop, and he bets, what do you do -- assume he's hit his set or two pair? Will he call your all in if he's missed his flop?

My view -- I understand why you want to wait, and only push if an A doesn't flop, but ... unless he's both a total moron and is unlikely to try to steal a pot if an A flops, I think your better play has got to be push pre-flop.

[kyro]

Basically nottom is saying you're working on the assumption he has an A. That's not exactly a good assumption.

[soLit]

If hes such a donkey, i would smooth call it, and let him overplay whatever he has and i would call an all in even if a ace hit the board.