Nice Pair & Cheating

[magithighs]

After busting out of last year's WSOP, I'm playing 8/16 in one of the better places in Vegas. Treading water for most part, until the seat opens to my left. I look back and much to my surprise, there's a really nice woman with a spaghetti strap tank top with a pair of aces on the front, fully loaded and the words nice pair on the tank top. Indeed.

She sits down next to me and I'm a little bummed, until I start winning like crazy -- clearly the table's got their eyes focused on the nice pair. Now, I don't care about the view.

About an hour after she sits down, I see her very agitated and keeps trying to get the attention of the floor person. She casually mentions (so the table can't hear) that she has a friend from out of town, and wants him to play at her table.

Low and behold her friend (guy) comes to the table and they pretend like they don't know each other. One orbit, and they both pop out to the washroom. It was all done very casually, so no one at the table would notice.

Then, I noticed the tips flying to the dealer from nice pair and her friend. $2 for every pot, no matter how big. Big pots, $5 bucks.

I quickly ask for a seat change. About 2 hours later nice pair and her friend had a mountain of chips and were in the process of leaving. The rest of the tourists were just about down to the felt looking like they were hit by a truck and didn't know what hit them.


I don't know how they were cheating. I didn't care. But I KNOW they were cheating -- they were not that good.

I believe cheating can be vere ffective when fleecing tourists or casual players.

I didn't want to say anything because I had NO proof and didn't want to stick around to find out. And, I didn't want to leave because I got into a great game.

So, what should have I done? How do we protect casual players, so the money keeps comming into the game?

Cheers
Magi

[Voltron87]

I don't get it, how were they cheating? Are you implying the dealer was in on it? Collusion is not going to beat 8/16 for mountains of chips.

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
they both pop out

[/ QUOTE ]

I was really hoping for a different "they" /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
But I KNOW they were cheating

[/ QUOTE ]

no you dont.

[Daliman]

If you are speaking about the player known on many sites as Nice Pair, you are VERY wrong, and way out of line.

Even if not, how the heel do you think they were cheating? Were they protecting, whipsawing, and best-handing? Do you really think a cheat team in consort with a dealer is going to hit an 8-16 game? And that said dealer is going to risk felony charges for an extra $1 per hand, $4 every once in awhile?

You clearly have little understanding of how, why, when and where cheating is done. What you have is a common case of two people who are freinds, having a good time, tipping well, and doing well. Happens a thousand times a day around the country.

[magithighs]

NO WAY am I implying the player known as Nice Pair was cheating.** That was just on the tank top.

Yes, I do understand how cheating is done. I've spotted it many times, and every time I just pick up and find another game. If it's online, I report it. Unfortunately, I'm really at a loss as to how to handle it in a B&M. I didn't want to hang around to figure out how they were cheating.

The reason I didn't say anything, as it I would get a ton of grief, and possibly more at the Casino. I didn't want to hang around to figure out how they were cheating. The dealer was not in on it. I was implying that the tips prevent him/her from saying/doing anything.

What is our recourse if we suspect cheating, other than leaving the game? I suspect nothing can be done.

Cheers
Magi

** This is why I didn't mention the casino, as I don't want to implicate anyone without ANY proof.

[Vincent Lepore]

[ QUOTE ]
I do understand how cheating is done. I've spotted it many times,

[/ QUOTE ]

Paranoia runs deep!

Vince

[banditbdl]

How about getting up from your game and telling the floor you suspect those two are cheating. Maybe the floor will take a look, maybe they won't, but at least put the ball in their court.

[hmmmmm]

Vince, tell me how your are going to respond when the truth comes out that there is indeed cheating in poker, as there is in most aspects of life, particularly those that involve poker.

I have been lurking here a long time, and know a lot first hand. Can I prove it? Nope. But I have seen it, dealt it, floored it and managed rooms where it was going on. You can keep your blinders on all you want.

Have a nice, happy life - until you find out the truth.

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
Vince, tell me how your are going to respond when the truth comes out that there is indeed cheating in poker, as there is in most aspects of life, particularly those that involve poker.

I have been lurking here a long time, and know a lot first hand. Can I prove it? Nope. But I have seen it, dealt it, floored it and managed rooms where it was going on. You can keep your blinders on all you want.

Have a nice, happy life - until you find out the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmmmm...

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do understand how cheating is done. I've spotted it many times,

[/ QUOTE ]

Paranoia runs deep!

Vince

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a little younger than you, Vince. I was thinking, "Paranoia may destroy ya."

The idea of cheating isn't impossible. But it's NOT rampant. If you see cheating everywhere you go, you're either going to the wrong places, or you're incredibly paranoid.

Go pick up "Gambling Scams" by Darwin Ortiz. It details the methods of cheaters. That way you'll know what to look for, and you won't sound foolish when you say things like, "I don't know how they were doing it, but I *know* they were cheating."

[Vincent Lepore]

You are talking to the wrong guy.

Vince

[Vincent Lepore]

Some losing poker players believe that the reason they are losers is because they were cheated. Anyone that believes cheating is rampant in casino poker is fooling themselves.

Vince

[disjunction]

Actually he might. Haven't you ever made a read before?

Without knowing the quality of the OP's reads, *we* don't know whether anyone was cheating. But judging the feedback he's gotten here alone, how can one expect him to have called the floor?

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
You are talking to the wrong guy.

Vince

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops.

Sorry, only the first paragraph was directed at you. The remainder of my post was directed at OP.

Sorry for the confusion. I suck at the internet.

[phish]

[ QUOTE ]
Some losing poker players believe that the reason they are losers is because they were cheated. Anyone that believes cheating is rampant in casino poker is fooling themselves.

Vince

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I've played in games where there have been allegations of cheating. I never believed them because I've always won. And even if they were cheating, they must not be very good at it. And in those rare situations where I found that my results were not acceptable (some online games and some B&M games smaller than I typically play), I simply stop playing them. I don't care whether I was being cheated or I just sucked.

[mosch]

Last year during the WSOP I played some 8/16. First a young gentleman joined our table, and then a gorgeous girl with the word 'Nice Pair' on her chest sat next to him, and they were joined by a third party. All of them pretended not to know each other.

Anyway, all three of them made huge profits while I was busy going down to the felt. I'm sure the three of them were cheating, but I don't know how.

Next time this happens, should I just beat one of them at random until they admit it, or is there a better strategy?

[magithighs]

[ QUOTE ]
How about getting up from your game and telling the floor you suspect those two are cheating. Maybe the floor will take a look, maybe they won't, but at least put the ball in their court.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, this would seem appropriate. Here's the thing. If I get the kind of response from this forum, what would be the response of the floor? I have no proof. The floor knew they were together -- and didn't bother to see if they announced that they were together. I don't think I could have added any more information for the floor. They were not interested. I just felt for the tourists.

Cheers
Magi

[magithighs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do understand how cheating is done. I've spotted it many times,

[/ QUOTE ]

Paranoia runs deep!

Vince

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a little younger than you, Vince. I was thinking, "Paranoia may destroy ya."

The idea of cheating isn't impossible. But it's NOT rampant. If you see cheating everywhere you go, you're either going to the wrong places, or you're incredibly paranoid.

Go pick up "Gambling Scams" by Darwin Ortiz. It details the methods of cheaters. That way you'll know what to look for, and you won't sound foolish when you say things like, "I don't know how they were doing it, but I *know* they were cheating."

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmm, did I say cheating was rampant and everywhere i go. I said I spotted it many times. Yes "many" is relative, but it's hard to make the leap from "many" to everywhere.

You've helped me make my point. There's really little one can do, if they suspect cheating -- other than leave the game.

I don't need a book. I didn't choose to hang around and figure out how they were cheating because there was an opporunity cost for me. I made way more at the other table. I'm not embarrased that I didn't figure out how they were cheating.

Cheers
Magi

[magithighs]

[ QUOTE ]
Last year during the WSOP I played some 8/16. First a young gentleman joined our table, and then a gorgeous girl with the word 'Nice Pair' on her chest sat next to him, and they were joined by a third party. All of them pretended not to know each other.

Anyway, all three of them made huge profits while I was busy going down to the felt. I'm sure the three of them were cheating, but I don't know how.

Next time this happens, should I just beat one of them at random until they admit it, or is there a better strategy?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe the odds of us being at the same game. I was suspicious when the third guy went to the other table and started passing them signals.

Cheers
Magi

[STLantny]

Er, this could have all been avoided if you wouldnt of scampered away from your seat like a scared little child. Next time, play a few orbits, if these two are going nuts w/ eachother, ask to see some cards when they are HU on the end after everyone has folded. Ive logged a ton of hours live, and have only slightly suspected weak collusion once or twice. But I also know how to use that against the donks.