jesse jackson and augusta national...

[scalf]

/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif yeah, old jesse , a favorite son of south carolina, has told the augusta georgia newspaper, that he and his rent-a-demonstration crew will be picketing the masters, and handing out pamphlets to "educate people...

meanwhile, the lady who started all this, admitted she wrote an article for ms. magazine stating all men should be given birth control pills until they had passed a parent resposibility check....yeah, she said she was proud of the article on national tv....

now , i know many people look at the augusta golf club as more than 300 guys who want to play golf, and associate with each other, and that's your right to view it that way....

however, how stupid are you going to get until you take a stand against stupidity, political correctedness, and people on the margin blackmailing normal people...

get real..i stand with hootie...

the rest of you as+ holes can picket with jesse, and stand tall with the castrating b...see how long ya can stand it...gl /forums/images/icons/mad.gif

[IrishHand]

If women were barred from the course, then I might be able to understand the debate. As it is, they can and do play Augusta. I'm totally in favor of the golf club's right to determine who it wants to be its members (although I have a problem saying I stand with anyone named "Hootie" just as a matter of personal dignity).

I think that Mr. Johnson brought some of these to light, but if you force women into Augusta National, then you should likewise be able to force women into other notorious boys-only clubs like the Boy Scouts, fraternities and men's rooms. For the record, I favor women in all those - would have made my childhood and college years a hell of a lot more interesting.

Lastly - Jesse Jackson is a moron. The man spouts out more garbage in his diatribes than any other 'public' figure that I'm aware of. At least the rest of them have the intelligence to cover up and gloss over the more extreme inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their positions.

[HDPM]

"the rest of you as+ holes can picket with jesse, and stand tall with the castrating b...see how long ya can stand it...gl"

So, you gonna ask Martha over for dinner when she's nearby in Augusta? /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

[John Cole]

scalf,

Hootie "normal"? He can only maintain this sort of fiction for so long. There is little "normal" about Hootie or his "friends," and he knows it, CBS knows it, and nearly everyone who watches the Masters knows it. What surprises me most is that he can actually scour the world and find 300 like-minded individuals.

Can't they please just let Martha Stewart join? It'd serve them right.

John

[Phat Mack]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Can't they please just let Martha Stewart join?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's her handicap? Does she like to gamble?

Golf was originally a gentleman,s game. The word Golf is an acrynem[sp?] for the word Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden
G O L F
signs which appeared outside of courses. If men want aprivate club they should be allowed to do so. I belong to a Country Club and most of the problems we have are caused by women members and especially those who are on the board of directors, they are simply incapable of leadership roles in a private club.

[ripdog]

It would be a cool story if it were only true. snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/golf.htm)

[andyfox]

I don't think it was that difficult to find 300 like-minded people, we could probably find that many on 2+2.

I understand the N.Y. Times today suggested that Tiger Woods boycott the Masters, something I suggested months ago.
Were I advising him, I would tell him he's bigger than the Masters, to tell the press a private club can have any restrictions it wants, I just won't play at one that excludes women as a matter of policy and had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into allowing African-Americans.

I nominate Hillary Clinton for the first woman member.

[HDPM]

"I nominate Hillary Clinton for the first woman member."

You've gone way too far now. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

[B-Man]

OK Andy, it didn't take long for me to find something we disagree on.

What is wrong with a private club choosing not to admit women? Can't men EVER associate among themselves without having to include women, if they so choose? There are many women-only colleges, associations, clubs, sororities, etc. and you never hear men complaining about that. I can't even imagine what the reaction would be if a man organized a protest/blackmail campaign to force Wellesley College (Hillary's alma mater) to admit men. Anyone who supports single-sex institutions like Wellesley or other women-only institutions yet supports Martha Burke is a hypocrite.

Sometimes guys just want to hang out with other guys so they can curse, burp, tell dirty jokes, etc. more freely than if women were around. I'm not endorsing or criticizing that behavior, but men absolutely have a right to have a private club where they can do so if they wish.

Furthermore, Tiger Woods has a right to play at such a club if he wants, and shouldn't face criticism or blackmail for doing so.

[Jimbo]

Hey Andy,

You seem to believe that Tiger cares whether or not Augusta allows women to be members. I suspect his opinion is one of indifference. As to whether they would cave in to Tiger or not is also debateable.

Women are a dime a dozen but green jackets come but once a year!

[Clarkmeister]

"I just won't play at one that excludes women"

This is the kind of presumption that really irritates me about political correctness. The assumption that a club excluding women is inherently wrong, without debate. This coupled with the hypocritical nature of the entire arguement is what drives people like Hootie to dig in rather than be open to compromise.

Its a silly issue anyways. This isn't a school or a store or some other public place. Its a tiny 300 person institution that is so elite that even Bill freaking Gates can't get in. Please tell me what social ill is being addressed here.

[Clarkmeister]

"There is little normal about Hootie and his friends"

What is *ab* normal about them? I find the assumption that they are doing anything wrong, or that their opinions on this subject are morally wrong to be incredibly presumptive.

Do you have any clue about Hootie's personal record on civil rights and feminist issues?

[John Cole]

Andy,

I meant, of course, 300 like Hootie. No way! Even Augusta has some people who can think.

John

[B-Man]

[Clarkmeister]

"300 like Hootie"

So just what is Hootie like? All you've said is that he is abnormal, unthinking and it would be tough to find 300 people like him. Please enlighten us exactly what it is about Hootie that makes him such things and an (apparently) abhorrent person.

Believe what you'd like/ This sounds like sexist feminist hohwash to me

[andyfox]

If Augusta National wants only men, I don't really care. I like to burp, curse and tell dirty jokes too. I don't think the Golf Tour, though, should use a club that does this as the home of one of its majors. For a long time they didn't allow blacks in the club. In fact, when the first black golfer won a tour event (Charlie Sifford, I think), they didn't invite him to play. It was evident the reason was because he was black.

Tiger Woods certainly has a right to play there. I am suggesting he tell them he doesn't care to play.

[andyfox]

I imagine you're correct, Tiger's attitude is one of indifference. I wonder what it would be if they didn't allow blacks to join.

I don't think Hootie would cave in. However, what if Tiger convinced numbers 2-20 not to play either. That might be a bit more interesting.

For me, green jackets are a dime a dozen, but women come but once a year (pun intended /forums/images/icons/smile.gif).

[andyfox]

There's no issue of political correctness here whatsoever, as far as I'm concerned. If I played on the Tour, and I had Tiger's power, I wouldn't pariticipate in one of the majors if it were played at a club that didn't allow women (or blacks, or Chinese) to join. I wouldn't do it because I thought it was politically correct to do so, I would do it because I thought it was the right thing to do.

And I agree with you, it's not that big a deal.

[andyfox]

Take a look at the thread. On this issue, I think we got 300 Hooties here at 2+2.

[andyfox]

This is certainly the issue behind the issue.

[andyfox]

Assuming what you say it true, we don't follow too much thinking from the 15th century on other issues, why should we do so on this one?

[Clarkmeister]

But Andy, that's the point. There is a very clear difference between not allowing African Americans to join and not allowing Women to join. Distinctions between the sexes are rightfully made on a daily basis in our country. Equating this situation with racism is wrong and inappropriate IMO.

[B-Man]

If I played on the Tour, and I had Tiger's power, I wouldn't pariticipate in one of the majors if it were played at a club that didn't allow women (or blacks, or Chinese) to join. I wouldn't do it because I thought it was politically correct to do so, I would do it because I thought it was the right thing to do.

Andy, by saying you think it is the "right" thing to do, are you implying that it is wrong for Augusta not to admit women?

Is it wrong for Wellesley not to admit men?

What about a women-only health club?

[Jimbo]

Andy,

Even if Augusta let women join the prissy little bitches would still complain due to the lack of ladies only WC's. Now that is true hypocrisy for you!

ps: I liked your pun /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[John Cole]

Clarkmeister,

I'm merely suggesting that Hootie and fellow members are far from the norm, and I am not suggesting they possess moral flaws. I have no idea about Hootie's stance on civil rights or feminism, though I suspect he's not a staunch feminist.

However, I find it fairly presumptuous of him to suggest that the Masters is a simple gathering of a few friends, when, in fact, it is a huge commercial enterprise. I am really not concerned whether this private club chooses to admit women--or anyone else for that matter. But, I think they should also go the way of Butler National and Cypress Point, two courses that refused to agree to the PGA's anti-discrimination policy, and withdrew from staging Tour events.

John

[andyfox]

It would be wrong for me to participate, as a member of the PGA Tour, in one of its four majors every year, that is played at a club that doesn't allow women in.

[Clarkmeister]

See, here is where we disagree...I think that despite what the NY Times and other papers would have you believe, support for Augusta is the norm. I firmly believe that your view on this is the minority.

Here's a little info on Hootie's past:

He was a key reason for a $25 million donation to the University of South Carolina School of Business and it was his idea to name it after Darla Moore. It is still the only Business school named after a woman at a major US university

As a bank owner in the 60's and 70's, he appointed African Americans and Women to his corporate boards, and was known for making loans to minorities when others wouldn't.

He was a major supporter of US Rep. Jim Clyborne (D-SC), an African American congressman.

He helped create a plan for peaceful desegregation of the state's colleges and universities in the late 60's.

He was the first businessman in SC to push to have the Confederate flag removed from the state house in Columbia.

He invited the entire University of South Carolina Womens Golf team to Augusta for a round, personally hosted the event, and allowed them to use the clubhouse, normally reserved only for members.

A closer look reveals a reasonable man taking a reasonable position. Martha Burke on the other hand, with past stances on the "forced birth control for men" has a history of hysterical and unreasonable behavior and views.

[Clarkmeister]

Why?

[B-Man]

It would be wrong for me to participate, as a member of the PGA Tour, in one of its four majors every year, that is played at a club that doesn't allow women in.

Why would it be wrong, Andy?

[HDPM]

Whatever you think of the merits of the Augusta debate, Hootie has handled the controversy incompetently. I am surprised he is successful based on his handling of the whole affair. But he is successful and has a good record as you suggest. Makes the whole thing kind of strange. Hootie has ended Augusta as he knew it. It's just a matter of time.

[Clarkmeister]

Perhaps. I've also read articles suggesting that a female member had already been in the works prior to Martha's involvement. In the end, however, the way that papers like the NY Times have covered the issue makes me think that regardless of how brilliantly he might have handled it, certain elements of the press were going to ride this horse into the ground. I think you are overestimating the negative impact of his initial "point of a bayonet" response. This would have degenerated no matter what once the media got a hold of it. And even without Hottie, they would have gotten wind eventually.

Personally, I think his AP interview and his Wall Street Journal editorial are well thought out, lucid and reasonable portrayals of their position. Sadly, his WSJ article gets almost no play while Martha's rantings get tons.