TT -- I cold-called 3 preflop

[Nick C]

Table is loose -- loose/passive, in fact, if I'm remembering correctly, though you can't tell from this hand.

UTG is 69/4/0.8 over 267 hands.

UTG+2 is a TAG (12/6/7) over 187 hands.

CO likes to bet when checked to, I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly, despite his 84/3/0.5 stats (100 hands). Or I don't know. Maybe he was just going through a phase of betting when checked to around the time this hand took place.

Oh, and MP2 is 23/3/1.5 over 118 hands.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (16.33 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11.16 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

River: (15.16 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises . . .</font>

Final Pot: 19.16 BB

I don't know what's best on any street, so I'll just let you guys take it away and give my thoughts later.

[thejameser]

so did he have JJ or QQ, maybe even AKs.

[thejameser]

not a bad hand, good flop for you. i understand the philosophy of not 3 betting if you did it to A)disguise you hand and B)make sure no diamond comes on 4th street so a flush draw has to really pay with the bigger bets to come. in retrospect a bet may have been a good idea since this guy loves his hand so much. conversely though, your passivity on the flop may have induced this. if he is in there and beat you with a straight(which i cannot fathom, but have seen worse so it is possible)then, well, that just sucks. pretty gutsy preflop call, though.

[ArturiusX]

Since most people folded the flop anyway, I think I'd raise it up. You're not keeping customers anymore by slowplaying, so raise it up and trap CO.

[ErrantNight]

i don't think waiting for the turn was terrible after UTG raises... but i fail to see why you didn't raise it the first time around... waiting for the turn might mean: no one leads the turn, the CO bets again (in which case you face the field with two cold on a big street), or any other host of unfriendly things. the flop raise should be easy, you'll still get lots of callers in this largish pot, if you take it down now it's not the end of the world (this pot is plenty big), and you might get lucky and CO or someone else will decide to go to war. and with the diamonds charging a flush draw, if there is one, is always happy. once you've smooth called, i like the second smooth call, even if this announces your hand as a monster when you raise the turn, because 3-betting the flop would announce the same thing and is not as likely to get as much money into the pot.

turn and river are standard.

i would consider capping if i'm playing here preflop. UTG+2's bet is likely for isolation, you've got a decent field, a cap will make the hand easier to play the flop and beyond. that is, when you don't flop top set on a relatively uncoordinated board.

also, does UTG+2 really have a post aggression factor of 7? that's a lil aggy aggy...

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Since most people folded the flop anyway, I think I'd raise it up. You're not keeping customers anymore by slowplaying, so raise it up and trap CO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really, really, really wanted to 3-bet the flop. But then I thought, "Sure, Nick, why don't you just turn your cards face up while you're at it?"

A 3-bet could indicate overcards plus a flush draw instead, I know, but I was hoping CO would hang around for at least one bet on the turn. Well, unless he had a flush draw, in which case I'd prefer for him to make an absurd fold.

I don't really know how my remaining opponents would have interpreted a flop call/3-bet, though.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
does UTG+2 really have a post aggression factor of 7? that's a lil aggy aggy...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it is 7. I just double-checked. He also has a BB/100 of 15. I guess he's hit some flops or something.

[ErrantNight]

which is why you should just raise. no one's putting you on a monster when you make this raise.

they will when you wait for the turn, or call/3-bet the flop.

that was a far more interesting part of my first post than my comments about villain's aggrression factor.

the flop raise should be easy.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
which is why you should just raise. no one's putting you on a monster when you make this raise.

they will when you wait for the turn, or call/3-bet the flop.

that was a far more interesting part of my first post than my comments about villain's aggrression factor.

the flop raise should be easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think you're right.

At the time I was thinking that no one seemed to have much (it didn't even seem like I was up against an overpair), and no one was going to take CO's bet seriously, so I didn't want to scare them off of their overcards.

But, yeah, a flop raise from me wouldn't represent all that much. I could just have a pocket pair.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
i would consider capping if i'm playing here preflop. UTG+2's bet is likely for isolation, you've got a decent field, a cap will make the hand easier to play the flop and beyond. that is, when you don't flop top set on a relatively uncoordinated board.

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered capping. Like you mention, I thought UTG+2 might have been trying to isolate. But I wasn't sure, and even if that was what he was doing, it already hadn't worked.

So what I decided to do was just cold-call, see if UTG wanted to cap, and hope for a set.

[ErrantNight]

or a draw, or anything else... and besides... you're not going to fold EVERYONE, and it's a big pot anyway, so limiting the field isn't the worst thing that could happen...

plus... in a nearly ideal situation, you end up with an early position bettor getting aggressive... and now the first raise you make is liable to kill the action.

if it WON'T kill the action... you could have gone to war when you made the first flop raise, anyway, and you still missed out on bets...

[ErrantNight]

i would like capping more if you were in the CO

[thejameser]

[ QUOTE ]
i would like capping more if you were in the CO

[/ QUOTE ]

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
or a draw, or anything else... and besides... you're not going to fold EVERYONE, and it's a big pot anyway, so limiting the field isn't the worst thing that could happen...

plus... in a nearly ideal situation, you end up with an early position bettor getting aggressive... and now the first raise you make is liable to kill the action.

if it WON'T kill the action... you could have gone to war when you made the first flop raise, anyway, and you still missed out on bets...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure now that a flop raise would have been better than my call.

I don't know what UTG+2 or MP2 had, of course, but chances are that, as it worked out, UTG's checkraise scared them more than a flop raise from me would have.

Plus, if there had been no raise behind me, someone might have cheaply picked up a draw on the turn. And I think with the pot as big as it was, that's a consideration, especially since I couldn't count on CO to bet into me again on the turn.

[Nick C]

What I said about not being sure what was best on any street wasn't entirely accurate, since I was pretty sure the turn and river were okay.

And now ErrantNight has convinced me that a flop raise would have been better than the line I took.

In any event, UTG called my river raise after a long delay, and his 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif lost to my set of tens.

Thanks for the responses.