I was called a moron on this hand... [Archive]

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NYCNative

04-30-2005, 06:07 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB ($6.05)
UTG ($23.55)
UTG+1 ($12.4)
UTG+2 ($10.15)
MP1 ($4.6)
MP2 ($29.17)
MP3 ($25.3)
CO ($17.6)
Button ($21.88)
NYCNative ($27.55)

Preflop: NYCNative is SB with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, NYCNative completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.50) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
NYCNative bets $1.5, BB folds, UTG calls $1.50, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO raises to $5, NYCNative calls $3.50, UTG calls $3.50.

Turn: ($16.50) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
NYCNative bets $10, UTG folds, CO raises to $12.35 (All-In), NYCNative calls $2.35.

River: ($41.20) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $41.20

Results in white below: 
NYCNative has Ts 2s (straight, jack high).
CO has Jc Jd (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: NYCNative wins $41.20.

pzhon

04-30-2005, 06:29 AM

This looks ok to me, although I would fold preflop, and I would push on the flop after the raise. The player with top set would call, of course, but next time you might get someone with a higher pair or a higher flush draw to fold.

Many people underestimate the power of a pair+flush draw. It has outs against any hand, but it is only as small favorite over some weak made hands. It is often good to play it aggresively to get weak made hands to fold.

I suppose the player with JJ was upset at losing, but that happened because he didn't raise preflop.

danno17

04-30-2005, 08:14 AM

I agree. Villain should have raised pf, and after the turn, you had even more outs against his set, so tough luck to him, but i dont feel to bad if he cant play his jacks strong enough pf.

Finite_Risk

04-30-2005, 09:46 AM

Ditto...other than his pathetic pre-flop play, I think both of you played this correctly...you had a load of outs along the way. Can't call anyone a moron when you limp with good hands and let others shoot at you cheaply.

Allinlife

04-30-2005, 09:52 AM

the better line would have been pushing over CO's raise on the flop. you are out of position so you will often face tough decision on blank river.

DrPublo

04-30-2005, 12:14 PM

I hate the turn bet because you have zero fold equity and at best you are like 33% to win the hand.

The Doc

PokerFink

04-30-2005, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
although I would fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

You're kidding, right? The pot is laying 9-1. I'm probably completing with 10-2o, definitely any two suited cards.

NYC,
I don't really like how you played this flop. There are six players and a semi connected board - someone probably got a piece of that board. As such, I don't like leading out with a pot bet and then just calling the raise. I like either check/calling a small bet from a deeper stack, making a small probing bet and then possibly re-raising, or going for a check/raise if one of the shorter stack players makes a move at it. Either keep the pot small on the flop or get yourself committed on the flop - don't leave yourself in between.

[ QUOTE ]
I hate the turn bet because you have zero fold equity and at best you are like 33% to win the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is borderline. The problem is not the turn bet, the problem is that the OP did not control the pot size on the flop. If he checks it, he has to grit his teeth and call an all-in from the CO anyway, so he might as well just put the CO in to begin with. Better to bet than call. I think he has more fold equity than you think. CO could have AJ.

-Skeme-

04-30-2005, 01:45 PM

I don't think I lead the turn. There is no real reason to suspect you're either a) getting a fold or b) ahead in the hand. Tricky decision as I don't think you're folding either. If you're going to get it all in here anyway then I'd be more inclined to check and see how much he bets. He could be a super donk and bet $5. If you miss, fold. If you hit.. he's not folding his set. On the other hand, if you're going to check-call your whole stack then why not just jam in the first place?

TreyOfLight

04-30-2005, 09:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ditto...other than his pathetic pre-flop play, I think both of you played this correctly...

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. Jacks was obligated to push the flop and did not.

I think this is an oft-overlooked cost of playing with a short stack: you are forced to allin prematurely with good-but-vulnerable hands, and (when they fold) forfeiting the money you could have milked from your opponents.