another 33 hand

[mr pink]

3/6 online

shortstacked utg raises, utg+2 cold calls, i tag along with 33, folded to an unknown button who calls 2, sb folds, bb calls. 5 to the flop for 10ish sbs

flop: 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif

checked to me, huh?, i check, button bets, folded around back to me, wha?, i raise, yah?

[JoshuaD]

I fold this PF, it doesn't seem marginal to me. Is anyone else cold calling here?

If the flop didn't have an A I'd raise, but as it is I just fold. The pot's small.

[mr pink]

errantnight kind of convinced me in a post in some pbob thread a couple days ago. basically after 1 coldcaller, he cold calls with any pocket pair.

pot is pretty nice on the flop, you don't think it's worth playing back at the button who could just be betting his position on that ragged flop?

[Willluck]

Pink, being the read-dependent player you are, the line you took is completely read dependent. so...any reads?
I would only cold call if I had good position.

P.S. I just won a freeroll to step 5 BIATCH!

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
pot is pretty nice on the flop, you don't think it's worth playing back at the button who could just be betting his position on that ragged flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

But what kind of hand are you representing by checkraising next to last out of five players? Your play looks most like either a poorly played monster or outright bullshit. Unless the button has absolutely nothing, I don't see him folding...but what I do see happening is you now being heads-up OOP on an A-high board, likely either far behind or ahead against unknown outs.

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
But what kind of hand are you representing by checkraising next to last out of five players? Your play looks most like either a poorly played monster or outright bullshit. Unless the button has absolutely nothing, I don't see him folding...but what I do see happening is you now being heads-up OOP on an A-high board, likely either far behind or ahead against unknown outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

ut looks like i'm representing some piece of the board, it doesn't really matter what it is from the button's perspective. if he was just betting his position, i'm basically calling bs on his bet and putting the pressure back on him. with that flop, and all the coldcallers before him, there are a ton of hands he could be holding that don't have an Ace and totally missed that flop. something like 9Ts, JQ, KJs, QTs etc... button has nothing a lot in this spot. if he's got a good ace then it's an easy fold to a 3-bet. if he calls the c/r, i plan on firing at any turn and giving up if called. don't you think it a turn bet will take it down 1 in 7 here?

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
Pink, being the read-dependent player you are, the line you took is completely read dependent. so...any reads?
I would only cold call if I had good position.


[/ QUOTE ]

he just sat down last orbit, gimme a break.

[ QUOTE ]
P.S. I just won a freeroll to step 5 BIATCH!

[/ QUOTE ]

i have no idea what youre talking about.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
with that flop, and all the coldcallers before him, there are a ton of hands he could be holding that don't have an Ace and totally missed that flop. something like 9Ts, JQ, KJs, QTs etc... button has nothing a lot in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, except that his nothing is either a PP or two "overcards" to the board, especially since he knows that you don't have an ace or else you would have bet the first time around. Consequently, I don't see him folding so easily to a turn bet.

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, except that his nothing is either a PP or two "overcards" to the board, especially since he knows that you don't have an ace or else you would have bet the first time around. Consequently, I don't see him folding so easily to a turn bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

so you're saying that there is no chance i have the best hand here? and that it's not even worth going after? check/folding to the button's autobet here which could be any 2 cards in a 11sb pot can't be right, i have the best hand too often. i think he'll have to pair up on the turn to have stay around till the river, and even then it's not like he knows my hand is total bs...

[Yobz]

I would fold preflop, but I like the flop bet.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold this PF, it doesn't seem marginal to me. Is anyone else cold calling here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think calling would normally be fine, but you might not want to call if UTG is so shortstacked as to be almost all-in.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold this PF, it doesn't seem marginal to me. Is anyone else cold calling here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Purely game dependent. Loose yes. Tight no.

[mr pink]

you mean the flop check/raise? i planned on check/folding if it was bet and called. but once it was heads up with the button, i figured a pair had a good shot at being the best hand.

[CallMeIshmael]

I call preflop here.

And, I just lead the flop. Like you said, there is a decent chance you have the best hand. By checking to the button, you are letting him decide if a bet goes in or not. Since he bets basically all hands that beat you, and only some that dont, you are more of a dog to his range given that he bets (obviously this logic cant be applied in all situations... but I like it here). If you bet, you take this away. You also let the button raise you if he has an ace, and you've just saved youself some bets.

Also... you are clutch. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
And, I just lead the flop. Like you said, there is a decent chance you have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's easy to say that now /images/graemlins/smirk.gif. honestly, i was so ready to check/fold until the button's bet cleared out the field. i hadn't even considered leading the flop. it's kinda hard to pull the trigger there with 33 in a 5 handed pot, even when 3 of them have checked it to you.

i like your point about the button and taking the decision to give take the free card away from him, maybe i need to start betting in these spots more often. i think the rest of the table will give the flop bet more credit if it comes from someone other than button, and possibly get people to fold some hands that they would have called with if the button had bet instead.

[ QUOTE ]
Also... you are clutch.

[/ QUOTE ]

big up.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
it's easy to say that now /images/graemlins/smirk.gif. honestly, i was so ready to check/fold until the button's bet cleared out the field. i hadn't even considered leading the flop. it's kinda hard to pull the trigger there with 33 in a 5 handed pot, even when 3 of them have checked it to you.

i like your point about the button and taking the decision to give take the free card away from him, maybe i need to start betting in these spots more often. i think the rest of the table will give the flop bet more credit if it comes from someone other than button, and possibly get people to fold some hands that they would have called with if the button had bet instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats true. It is very easy for me to say bet, given that I know you are getting at least 3 folds behind.


[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Also... you are clutch.

[/ QUOTE ]

big up.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, you would have been far more clutch if you had bet the flop. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, you would have been far more clutch if you had bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

clearly.

also fwiw, the button called the check/raise. turn was the mighty 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif. i bet, he fold.

clutch.

[Yobz]

[ QUOTE ]
you mean the flop check/raise? i planned on check/folding if it was bet and called. but once it was heads up with the button, i figured a pair had a good shot at being the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, if it was called in even 1 place, it is an easy fold. Because it wasn't called and because it was button who was doing the betting, I like your check/raise. You can fold to a 3-bet and if just called I think you have a good chance of taking it down on the turn (or folding to a raise, or check/folding the river UI).

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
You can fold to a 3-bet and if just called I think you have a good chance of taking it down on the turn (or folding to a raise, or check/folding the river UI).

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting this the whole way against the button the check/folding the river is pretty shitty. Alot of hands will take a shot at you there. This board isn't too draw heavy, but even then I've seen guys do it with K high.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
turn was the mighty 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif....clutch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly to the clutch doubters:

pink -> turns set -> clutch. nuf said.

[mr pink]

LOL... nice location.