Mulder vs. Hudson

[tbach24]

Hudson's getting roughed up already /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jack of Arcades]

It would probably be even worse if Larry Walker didn't sacrifice bunt.

[istewart]

I wanted to watch this, but I really want to watch the playoffs tonight.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
It would probably be even worse if Larry Walker didn't sacrifice bunt.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha, yeah. i follow all my players and saw that mora reached on a bunt single and was like "well there goes some EV"

[Jack of Arcades]

Brian Jordan should NOT be batting third.

Mulder isn't fooling anyone, either. 3 hard hit balls.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Brian Jordan should NOT be batting third.

Mulder isn't fooling anyone, either. 3 hard hit balls.

[/ QUOTE ]

the game on TBS? ESPN?

[tbach24]

4-2 now.

[Jack of Arcades]

TBS.

[Dead]

The Yankee game is good as well. There's a pitchers duel going on with RJ and Halladay.

RJ solid through 4 innings. 0 ER, 2 H, 1 BB, 5 K's.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
The Yankee game is good as well. There's a pitchers duel going on with RJ and Halladay.

RJ solid through 4 innings. 0 ER, 2 H, 5 K's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right on cue, Dead is here to talk about the Yankees/images/graemlins/grin.gif

More to the point though, that's not as interesting as the two former A's matching up and therefore unworthy of a thraed (at least so far, until RJ gets real close to the K record or shea pwns the [censored] out of him).

[Roan]

Ugh, I have them both on my Fantasy team, not exactly the pitchers duel i was hoping for...

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Brian Jordan should NOT be batting third.

Mulder isn't fooling anyone, either. 3 hard hit balls.

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps it's because cox felt a 2 run shot? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Dead]

Let's see now. RJ has pitched 6 scoreless innings. The Yankees have only managed 2 hits, and NO runs against the Blue Jays. I said it yesterday and I will say it again: OFFENSE IS THE PROBLEM.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's see now. RJ has pitched 6 scoreless innings. The Yankees have only managed 2 hits, and NO runs against the Blue Jays. I said it yesterday and I will say it again: OFFENSE IS THE PROBLEM.

[/ QUOTE ]

RJ is nasty. You are right the offense isn't doing anything, but I guess you have to give a little credit to Halladay. Shea isn't owning yet /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[tbach24]

In other news, Clemens finally gets some run support but proceeds to give up 2 ER of his own.

[Dead]

Halladay is a good pitcher, but come on.

He was owned by us last year.

The offense was supposed to be better this year than last year. A-Rod made an effort by getting a hit and then stealing second, then Giambi or one of the other bottom people struck out.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
In other news, Clemens finally gets some run support but proceeds to give up 2 ER of his own.

[/ QUOTE ]

That should quadruple his ERA at least. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[tbach24]

before the game it was .32 now its .9. lol i hope he wins tho cuz i started him

[Jack of Arcades]

You're *still* allowing over 5 runs a game.

[Dead]

This offense should be able to muster at least 1 run.

[Jack of Arcades]

Because good offenses *never* get shut out by Cy Young pitchers.

[Dead]

He's regressed since then.

He's hittable, but not with the way this offense is performing.

[tbach24]

eric hinske just pwned rj

[Dead]

Yes he did.

And I don't blame RJ. 2 ER in 7 innings is hardly horrible. It's a great start.

I blame an offense that can only muster 2 hits off the Blue Jays in 7 innings, at Yankee Stadium. That is just awful.

RJ came here because he wanted to get wins. He wanted more run support. He hasn't gotten shitt this year.

[Voltron87]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaghaghaghgha!#&@#)*&@#)*&@#SHJ#H*! #!*#)!@)*motherfucker

[Jack of Arcades]

If by "regressed" you mean "got hurt and had a bad half-season," then yeah, he's "regressed."

His 150 innings last season doesn't set a new performance level at all. Our best guess is something more in line with his three seasons before that, with a bit of a downward adjustment.

That said, the Yankees lineup isn't amazing. A-Rod, Gary, Derek, and Hideki are pretty good. Jorge could really decline. Bernie, Tony, Tino, and Giambi... are not good at all. It should be one of the better offenses, but by no means the best.

[Dead]

Tino better hit one of those old-style homers and tie it up.

[tbach24]

It definetly is a great start. Do you think RJ is beginning to feel like he's in AZ again with the lack of run support, bad bullpen and crappy starters around him?

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
RJ came here because he wanted to get wins. He wanted more run support. He hasn't gotten shitt this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Jack of Arcades]

Oh Albert you so fine, you so fine you blow my mind.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh Albert you so fine, you so fine you blow my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha, he is so good. i was shocked to see him strike out tho. that makes 2 games in a row. do you think he'll be considered the best player ever when its all said and done?

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
do you think he'll be considered the best player ever when its all said and done?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahahahahaha. This is a joke right?

Pujols is awesome. He would have been NL MVP had it not been for Bonds. But he will never be considered the best player ever.

[Dead]

I am surprised that Unit is still out there. Good for him. Hopefully we can come through in the bottom of the eighth and get him a win.

RJ retired the side in the eighth, on eight pitches.

I bet he goes and pitches the ninth.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
do you think he'll be considered the best player ever when its all said and done?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahahahahaha. This is a joke right?

Pujols is awesome. He would have been NL MVP had it not been for Bonds. But he will never be considered the best player ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's 25. His career OPS is only .19 behind Bonds and he's much better than Bonds at this age. He's only getting better too.

[Dead]

But Bonds is not the greatest ever either.

First off, I don't believe that he's only 25. He says that he is, but he looks more like 30.

Secondly, I have no doubt that he will be great, and an eventual Hall of Famer. But I don't think there's any way that he will be the best ever.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
But Bonds is not the greatest ever either.

First off, I don't believe that he's only 25. He says that he is, but he looks more like 30.

Secondly, I have no doubt that he will be great, and an eventual Hall of Famer. But I don't think there's any way that he will be the best ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who would you consider the best player ever and why would you find it unreasonable for Pujols to be 25? Also, why would it be unreasonable to think he'll be the best ever?

[Dead]

Because Babe Ruth is the best ever.

[Jack of Arcades]

Except that Bonds has about 10000 PA more than Albert...

...and was a supreme defensive player at his peak...

...and has some of the greatest seasons ever...

...and has played in pitcher's parks, and played a good amount of time in a lower offensive era...

When Pujols puts up a Bonds 1992, lemme know.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
First off, I don't believe that he's only 25. He says that he is, but he looks more like 30.

[/ QUOTE ]

...he was raised in the US and attended high school here. Do you honestly think he attended high school when he was 23?

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Except that Bonds has about 10000 PA more than Albert...

...and was a supreme defensive player at his peak...

...and has some of the greatest seasons ever...

...and has played in pitcher's parks, and played a good amount of time in a lower offensive era...

When Pujols puts up a Bonds 1992, lemme know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously I think that Bonds is the best player ever. However, I don't think that it's unreasonable to say that Pujols could become the best ever. He's getting better and better and (I think) is a great fielding 1B. Also, Bonds used to try and steal a lot which is -EV

[Dead]

Does he look like your average 25 year old?

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Does he look like your average 25 year old?

[/ QUOTE ]

if he doesnt (which im not so sure of myself), then why would he? pro athletes usually dont look their age

[Vince Young]

No, but I don't think Craig Biggio is 9.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Except that Bonds has about 10000 PA more than Albert...

...and was a supreme defensive player at his peak...

...and has some of the greatest seasons ever...

...and has played in pitcher's parks, and played a good amount of time in a lower offensive era...

When Pujols puts up a Bonds 1992, lemme know.

[/ QUOTE ]

psssst... he also took some special stuff that made him real strong.

[Jack of Arcades]

Stealing bases does not cost you runs. Stealing bases at a bad clip does. The breakeven point is somewhere around 72% in a high-scoring environment. For his career, Bonds has stolen at a 78% clip. Also, over half (261) of his SB came pre-1993 in a low-scoring run environment... coincidentally, his rate was also 78%. I estimate that these SB have added over 70 runs to his teams.

[Jack of Arcades]

Does your average 23 year old go to high school?

[Jack of Arcades]

Do you think he took steroids in 1992?

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Stealing bases does not cost you runs. Stealing bases at a bad clip does. The breakeven point is somewhere around 72% in a high-scoring environment. For his career, Bonds has stolen at a 78% clip. Also, over half (261) of his SB came pre-1993 in a low-scoring run environment... coincidentally, his rate was also 78%. I estimate that these SB have added over 70 runs to his teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still, Pujols' first 4 seasons are much more impressive than Bonds'. I am not saying that it's a lock on him being the greatest player ever, I'm saying I think that there is a solid chance.

His plate patience also is getting better as in each of the past 4 seasons, his BBs have gone up and the K's have gone down.

[Voltron87]

ive had the steroid argument way too many times... but i think the fact that he cheated at all is bad enough. im not saying no yankees have ever done it, but i think it's much more prevalent than anyone thinks. or it used to be.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
It definetly is a great start. Do you think RJ is beginning to feel like he's in AZ again with the lack of run support, bad bullpen and crappy starters around him?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. This [censored] sucks.

RJ pitches a complete game, gives up 7 hits, 2 runs, and strikes out 9. And the Yankees lose. We only managed 3 hits against the Blue Jays. That is AWFUL.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It definetly is a great start. Do you think RJ is beginning to feel like he's in AZ again with the lack of run support, bad bullpen and crappy starters around him?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. This [censored] sucks.

RJ pitches a complete game, gives up 7 hits, 2 runs, and strikes out 9. And the Yankees lose. We only managed 3 hits against the Blue Jays. That is AWFUL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reminds me of the time when Lilly pitched 8 IP, 1 H, 1 ER, 1 HR, 0 BB, 8 K and lost 1-0.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
Still, Pujols' first 4 seasons are much more impressive than Bonds'. I am not saying that it's a lock on him being the greatest player ever, I'm saying I think that there is a solid chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if by solid chance, you mean about as good as A-Rod... yeah. But it's not that good of a chance.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still, Pujols' first 4 seasons are much more impressive than Bonds'. I am not saying that it's a lock on him being the greatest player ever, I'm saying I think that there is a solid chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if by solid chance, you mean about as good as A-Rod... yeah. But it's not that good of a chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you deny Pujols' legitemacy? 1B is about equal to OF, no? Also, I think Pujols has established himself as a great defensive 1B. His hitting for the first 4 years is the best ever, and like I said, is only getting better. Provide me with a good reason why he won't please.

[Dead]

1B is probably the easiest position to field.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still, Pujols' first 4 seasons are much more impressive than Bonds'. I am not saying that it's a lock on him being the greatest player ever, I'm saying I think that there is a solid chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if by solid chance, you mean about as good as A-Rod... yeah. But it's not that good of a chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

he needs to have a very long career, plus a good peak. adding 50 points to the OBP and 100 points to the SLG couldn't hurt.

[Dead]

And A-Rod has played two more difficult positions during his career. He also has hit more HR's per year and more doubles, and of course he has stolen more bases.

A-Rod > Pujols

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still, Pujols' first 4 seasons are much more impressive than Bonds'. I am not saying that it's a lock on him being the greatest player ever, I'm saying I think that there is a solid chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if by solid chance, you mean about as good as A-Rod... yeah. But it's not that good of a chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

he needs to have a very long career, plus a good peak. adding 50 points to the OBP and 100 points to the SLG couldn't hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doing that would give him a 1.18 OPS...I certainly think he's capable of that, and if he did it, IMO, that would make him the best player of all time.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
And A-Rod has played two more difficult positions during his career. He also has hit more HR's per year and more doubles, and of course he has stolen more bases.

A-Rod > Pujols

[/ QUOTE ]

Pujols averages 40 HR per year, A-Rod has much less.
Pujols nearly averages 50 2B per year, A-Rod has much less.

[bugstud]

go look at ted williams...

[Jack of Arcades]

He'll be the best player ever if he does what he's done for the last 4 seasons over 20 seasons.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
He'll be the best player ever if he does what he's done for the last 4 seasons over 20 seasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats my argument...and i dont think its unreasonable at all

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
go look at ted williams...

[/ QUOTE ]

holy crap, i didnt realize he was so nasty. career obp of .482. wow, best player ever

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
go look at ted williams...

[/ QUOTE ]

holy crap, i didnt realize he was so nasty. career obp of .482. wow, best player ever

[/ QUOTE ]


exactly

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He'll be the best player ever if he does what he's done for the last 4 seasons over 20 seasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats my argument...and i dont think its unreasonable at all

[/ QUOTE ]

It's completely unreasonable.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He'll be the best player ever if he does what he's done for the last 4 seasons over 20 seasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats my argument...and i dont think its unreasonable at all

[/ QUOTE ]

It's completely unreasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, now that i've seen williams's stuff it probably is. i dont think its unreasonable for him to be the best 1B ever tho /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Dead]

Babe Ruth > Ted Williams.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He'll be the best player ever if he does what he's done for the last 4 seasons over 20 seasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats my argument...and i dont think its unreasonable at all

[/ QUOTE ]

It's completely unreasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, now that i've seen williams's stuff it probably is. i dont think its unreasonable for him to be the best 1B ever tho /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Gehrig. Quit while you're behind.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He'll be the best player ever if he does what he's done for the last 4 seasons over 20 seasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats my argument...and i dont think its unreasonable at all

[/ QUOTE ]

It's completely unreasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh, now that i've seen williams's stuff it probably is. i dont think its unreasonable for him to be the best 1B ever tho /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Gehrig. Quit while you're behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, gehrig was so nasty too. how come im missing this whole era from my knowledge? btw, i never was ahead /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Dead]

And Gehrig only played 14 full seasons. He knocked in the 493 homers in 14 full. If his career hadn't been cut short by disease, imagine what else he could have done.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
And Gehrig only played 14 full seasons. He knocked in the 493 homers in 14 full. If his career hadn't been cut short by disease, imagine what else he could have done.

[/ QUOTE ]

please, give me more of these nasty guys, i am in awe!

[Dead]

And I'd hate to jinx Pujols(:)), but I could see him as a Mattingly. Say he has a great first 6-7 years, and then crashes and burns, as he is decimated by injuries for the last half of his career, missing the HOF.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And Gehrig only played 14 full seasons. He knocked in the 493 homers in 14 full. If his career hadn't been cut short by disease, imagine what else he could have done.

[/ QUOTE ]

please, give me more of these nasty guys, i am in awe!

[/ QUOTE ]

Stan Musial. 3 time MVP, and All-Star for 20 consecutive years.

And check this out:

MVP (YrLg-Rk-Shr)
1942-NL-12-0.08
1943-NL-1-0.79
1944-NL-4-0.40
1946-NL-1-0.95
1947-NL-20-0.04
1948-NL-1-0.90
1949-NL-2-0.67
1950-NL-2-0.47
1951-NL-2-0.57
1952-NL-5-0.38
1953-NL-8-0.18
1954-NL-6-0.29
1955-NL-8-0.14
1956-NL-9-0.18
1957-NL-2-0.68
1958-NL-12-0.12
1960-NL-16-0.05
1962-NL-10-0.07

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And Gehrig only played 14 full seasons. He knocked in the 493 homers in 14 full. If his career hadn't been cut short by disease, imagine what else he could have done.

[/ QUOTE ]

please, give me more of these nasty guys, i am in awe!

[/ QUOTE ]

Stan Musial. 3 time MVP, and All-Star for 20 consecutive years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Solid player, but I checked Jimmie Foxx and he was very very good.

[Dead]

Stan Musial only struck out once for every 15.7 at bats. He had a great eye.

10972 career ABs, 696 strikeouts.

[tbach24]

very, very good. to the title of the thread tho, the stat lines for each SP:

Mulder:

7 IP, 8 H, 5 R, 4 ER, 2 BB, 3 K, 1 HR

Hudson:

6 IP, 9 H, 6 R, 6 ER, 2 BB, 3 K, 1 HR

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
Stan Musial only struck out once for every 15.7 at bats. He had a great eye.

10972 career ABs, 696 strikeouts.

[/ QUOTE ]

typical of the era, though.

[Jack of Arcades]

Mickey Mantle, Rogers Hornsby, Honus Wagner, Tris Speaker

[tbach24]

2 on, nobody out for raul mondesi vs. julian tavarez.