A Fun Little Hand

[Jazza]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">BB ($0)</font>
<font color="#C00000">UTG ($21.55)</font>
<font color="#C00000">UTG+1 ($164.65)</font>
UTG+2 ($160.45)
MP1 ($121.95)
Hero ($97)
MP3 ($54.05)
CO ($80.28)
Button ($31.15)
SB ($98)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif. UTG+1 posts a blind of $1. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG+1 (poster) calls $2, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($9.50) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: ($9.50) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $10</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $25.50

you guys ever do this? EV+ or EV- you reckon?

[-Skeme-]

I'd bet the flop. I'd probably make the turn raise more. I'm probably not folding for $4. If you call and he happens to have a weak six then he might check into you. If he has a strong six and you river a 9 you get paid off.

[Jazza]

you bet into a preflop raiser with 99 with a third player in and an overcard on the flop?

[Jazza]

just one reply? /images/graemlins/frown.gif

my thoughts were there was no way the pre flop raiser could call a bet and raise with A high, and UTG wouldn't raise me with a worse hand, so I thought for $6 I could find out if my hand was good

[RED FACE]

Yes, if you're going to make a play bet the flop with only the pfr behind you. What are the chances the T hit him or he has an op? - low enough for you to present maybe a TJs sort of hand. What are you trying to present with your turn raise? A6s, 67s? If you had an overpair or hit the T are you really going to check that flop? Or is your opponent supposed to believe you have a set now?

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
you bet into a preflop raiser with 99 with a third player in and an overcard on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not always, but yes, I do. You have a good hand on a flop without paint. The overcard you mentioned isn't very likely to have helped your opponents. One of them has already checked and I would say there is a 99% chance that the preflop aggressor is making another bet on the flop whether he improved or not. I prefer leading out here to define my hand as opposed to either check-calling or check-folding.

[PinkSteel]

This might be weak, but I play to spike my 9 the whole way. Check the flop like you did, flat call his weak turn bet thinking that now, if I spike a 9 on the river, he'll never know what hit him. If I don't get the river 9, I probably only call another weak bet, otherwise let it go.

I can see the merit of the turn raise -- take it down right there -- but if he flat calls you, then an overcard hits on the river and he bets out again, what do you do?

[swolfe]

depending on what i thought MP's hand range is, i'd probably lead the flop as well. unless i can narrow him down to strictly an overpair.

[fathertime]

EV+ I say--especially if you've been playing well.

You're representing 666 or something better; he ain't buying it or more likely has a 6.

[joewatch]

Sorry, I don't like your turn play at all. The problem is that you don't know what the BB could have, and he most likely has you beat (6X, TT, 22) So your raise is -EV in the long run. I think if you want to play your 99 for set value, or you think the BB is bluffing, calling the small turn bet is a much better play.

[danno17]

I would probably bet the flop, and if the BB checkraises, i'm probably looking at slowplayed AA, KK, QQ. It all depends on if you think hes weak or not. To me, a weak player checkraising the flop i'm beat, but that six on the turn can make most people take a stab.

[fathertime]

It is a very inexpensive steal bet. You don't want to make this play all the time but some of the time, yes. These work especially well against loose players and weak players, if you have a solid or feared table image. Check raise steals are also effective because they balance out times you check raise with the goods.

[joewatch]

[ QUOTE ]
These work especially well against loose players and weak players, if you have a solid or feared table image.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but this wasn't a check-raise steal. Also, I think that this is a bad place to try this play since you are trying to steal from the BB, who could have been trying to CR the flop.


[ QUOTE ]
Check raise steals are also effective because they balance out times you check raise with the goods.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be difficult to tell if this is true, but my feeling is that it isn't, unless you are always playing with players who bluff a lot but fold TPTK to a raise. There are too many calling stations in SSNLHE.

[fathertime]

I'd call it a check raise steal with possibly the best hand.

BB's 2 bet is weak--maybe begging for a raise; maybe a cheap steal.

I check rose stole about 10 times last night with about an 80% success rate. Its success is dependent on player; situation; and how folks perceive you. Mikie'd try it /images/graemlins/wink.gif