Do you modify your play against other 2+2'ers?

[lstream]

During the last few days, I have had the pleasure of being at the same table with Beer and Roland - fellow 2+2'ers. We almost never end up in the same hand together. Roland and I were at the same table for almost two hours last night, and I think there was only one hand where we came close.

This got me wondering whether or not I am being extra careful against you guys. Odds tell me that we should be in the same hand somewhere between 1/16 and 1/25 of the time, assuming all of us are tight. I don't think the collisions are anywhere near as frequent.

Are we giving each other too much respect? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

p.s. Roland - hope things went well for you after I left

[jon_1van]

I'll definetly alter my play against a 2+2er. In general this means I'll try to "get tricky" in one way or another.

[MRBAA]

Against 2+2ers I think play well (from their posts and/or past experience playing with them), I definitely alter my play. For example, if I'm playing 3-6 with lstream, I'd assume his starting standards are better than, say, Nappori. So hands like (56)7 are more likely to find the muck, decreasing the possibility of confrontations. It's already low, as you noted, because good players are much tighter than average. There are some 2+2ers who I don't think play well at all -- against them I may alter my play as against any weak player in accordance with their mistakes.

Once you're in a hand and the pot is decent, I think the differences are much less important.

[jon_1van]

oh yeah...I tend to avoid tables that have players I respect on them. So if there are players that I think are pretty decent I may try to find a better table.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll definetly alter my play against a 2+2er. In general this means I'll try to "get tricky" in one way or another.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'd try too, if only because it's fun to get tricky once in a while. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
But as long as the game is somewhat loose you only very rarely get a chance to do it. I might be able to push a 2+2'er of a hand with a busted flush draw or something, but that doesn't help me one bit if someone else calls me with a pair of 8s and I've got nothing. It's called a "protected pot" I think.

[beset7]

This may not be the case with Beer and Roland but I've found that a vast majority of 2+2ers are weak/tight. Therefore, I go super-LAG and crush them usually. With people from this forum I have less success with this. But I often play in 2+2 private NLHE games about 3x as loose as normal and my win rate is sky high.

[Andy B]

I have found that several posters here allow me to run them over when we meet on Stars.

[Michael Emery]

[ QUOTE ]
I've found that a vast majority of 2+2ers are weak/tight. Therefore, I go super-LAG and crush them usually.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will agree that we have a lot of regular posters here that are weak tight. We've had people on the stud forums doing sick stuff lately like check-calling when they should bet, not betting big hands on the river because they were scared, releasing hands that they shouldnt. I usually give any 2+2 players I encounter credit for what they're representing. But with all that said, going "Super LAG and crushing them" probably wont work against stud players.

I'm guessing your a hold'em player that likes to take advantage of people when they miss the flop and you both have nothing. Or a no limit player that likes to bet a amount large enough to bully your opponent out of his pot. If you were to play stud with most of the tight regulars on the stud forum this wouldnt work. Unless you catch something extremely threatening on board they are simply going to the river with you and calling you down. Moreso, they will have you crushed nearly every time you enter a pot with them. With partys tight mid-limit structure (which is where most all 2+2 stud players seem to play) they are almost guaranteed to show a profit. Hell, even very weak-tight players can show a profit in certain party games. For those that play often ming1368 is a prime example of this. Hes not nearly as aggressive as he should be and misses plenty of value bets. Yet he is without a doubt a winning player just because he plays tight as nails in a structure where it is correct. The only reason players like this can show a profit is because silly opponents call them down with weak holdings for some reason. In my opinion "little stud" (stud with a very tight structure) as mason calls it in poker essays, is easy to play. Just enter the pot only with premium hands that dont take any real skill to play and wait for weak opponents to chase. If you were to throw a lot of the steady winners on party into a real "big stud" game like 15-30 and up, I know very few who could cut it.

Mike Emery

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
I have found that several posters here allow me to run them over when we meet on Stars.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would love to see you try that on me and my calling station tendencies.

[BeerMoney]

Really nice post Mike.

To answer your post Stream, I am more likely to give a solid player credit for a hand on third street.. That's really the only difference..

The one hand we played together, I think you should have folded your kings with one dead king against my raise with an ace showing. Especially against my check raise on 4th.

[TheShootah]

It's because that picture of you in your avatar is very intimidating. No but seriously, I don't play on PS because of you aura there. Actually I don't play anywhere: That is how scared I am of you. Or it's because I am not of legal age. One or the other.... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[timmer]

change gears more. and not only to aggression gear but also the deception gear.

[Andy B]

Not being of legal age doesn't seem to stop a lot of people.

[timmer]

Yeap against most a solid "A" game will get their money.

I could say more but I wont

~t

[TheShootah]

Hahaha, you are correct. And if my dad didn't have the ability to see what gets charged to my debit card, it wouldn't stop me either. You would be taking my money as we speak (or type).

[beset7]

case in point: I just played in a no-limit cash game at party with posters from small stakes pl/nl and a couple from mid/high and busted the table playing like a total maniac (up 12 buyins). Only a few would play back at me and they almost always had the hand they were representing...

[Aicirt]

I dont play against 2+2ers often, but the one time I did (in the 2+2 stud 8 tournament), I played quite loose and aggressive and it was working well for me. People were folding extremely easily on 3rd at the beginning of the tournament. I generally try to play very tight at the beginning, however this was the one time in a tournament were playing more agressively in the beginning seemed like +EV.

Aicirt

[CarlosChadha]

Hi guys,

Nice post Mike. I think it would be a great idea to get a regular game with 2+2'er on full tilt poker, because they have the same great 1/5 of a small bet ante on most of their stud games. This would force everyone to break out of their weak/tight shells that they have developed by playing thousands of hands at Party/Stars, and also give people a taste of a big game without having to play a big price. Everyone would get better, it would be fun, and full tilt would take all our money...sounds good to me /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Regards,
Carlos