Any Value Here?

[fyodor]

10/20 5 Handed - Loose Passive Table
I raise T8s UTG
Button and SB call, BB raises, we all call
653 rainbow checked around
(653)8 - same suit as the 6
checked to me, I bet, all call
(6538)K - no flush
checked to me

[JrJordan]

T8s from UTG seems pretty rough unless you know Button and CO will fold this more often than not. Other than that I play it the same. Any raise on the turn and I'm probably out though.

[___1___]

fyodor,

I don't see anything but maybe a hair of value in betting the river. I don't see a naked ace calling a bet on the turn and river. What hand will call your bet? Possibly A5,A6, or 76, but I can also see a K check/calling the river at a loose passive table. There might smidge of value betting the river, but I don't think I bet.

___1___

[stigmata]

I bet/fold river. I think most 10/20 players are betting there King here if I check it to them, and then I call anyhow. Some worse hands will call. It's razor thin whoever is right.

[krishanleong]

I don't think it's thin at all. On a scale of 1-easy to 10-hard I'd say this is a 6.

You have a pair bigger than all pairs on the flop. That's pretty much good enough for me.

Krishan

[sublime]

the preflop raise is thin. the river is a bet.

[Scotch78]

I check behind on the river. If the BB wasn't being fancy anywhere, then AK should account for a large percentage of his possible holdings. Plus, with the other two players trapped between you and the BB, a check-raise could easily be his plan.

Scott

[Grisgra]

I hate the UTG preflop raise on a loose-passive table. This isn't the time to get cute.

Bet/fold the river. Anybody with a piece will call, ditto BB's AQ or AJ, probably.

[mistrpug]

[ QUOTE ]
10/20 5 Handed - Loose Passive Table
I raise T8s UTG

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Any Value Here?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
10/20 5 Handed - Loose Passive Table
I raise T8s UTG

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Any Value Here?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everybody should try and get past preflop. Fyodor is a solid player. Can we assume that he has reasons for doing this. Maybe he is thinking about Shania. Maybe everyone has folded to his UTG raise the last 50 orbits so he is raising any 2 and happened to have T8s this time.

I think it's fine to criticize new players on all the mistakes in a hand. But I'm pretty sure really solid players don't need the advice. I mean yeah it looks like hell but that just cause everyone called and it's easy to be results oriented. If I ever post a steal raise from MP with 29, your going to have to trust me that the CO, Button and blinds were really right and that UTG (who folded) was the reason the game was good. And you should assume that even if everyone calls or I get 3-bet by the button because it's crazy to think that this would be my default play.

Raising T8s UTG is not Fyodor's default play. (I hope)

Krishan

[fyodor]

I really don't care what anyone thinks of my preflop play. T8s is not something I normally open with UTG. I don't have some kind of chart I go by though. At that time, at that table, it seemed like the thing to do.

Anyhow after reading all the responses I am now sure I missed a value bet on the river. It may have been thin but it was there nonetheless.

[fyodor]

uh.. I'm not Kiddo but thanks for the backup. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[krishanleong]

edited my post.

Krishan

[Nikla]

I dont mind the raise PF. Sure it's marginal but so what? What you do with it post is what matters anyway. I'd bet-fold river.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't care what anyone thinks of my preflop play. T8s is not something I normally open with UTG. I don't have some kind of chart I go by though. At that time, at that table, it seemed like the thing to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. If you're in table-bully mode and your opponents are cowering and weeping in the corner, praying that you won't raise preflop again, then what the hell, right? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[DrGutshot]

preflop is marginal but I'm not gonna complain. Bet the river - if someone hit their king so be it, you're still gonna get paid by trash hands.

fold to a raise.

-DrG

[fyodor]

I checked. It was checked behind. My T8s 2nd pair was good.

SB T7s for a missed straight draw
BB AQs just overcards
Button T9s for a missed straight draw and a missed flush draw

Maybe the BB calls a bet. If anyone had a 6, 5 or 3 they likely call though.