Who has the safest career stat lead??

[jba]

Which pro sports career stat record is least likely to be broken? for example career rushing yards, career rebounds, etc...

I'm only talking about career stats here - things like Wilt's 100 point game or DiMaggio's hit streak do not qualify.

I nominate John Stockton's 12,713 assists. I would be surprised if someone could convince me otherwise.

[Zoltri]

I find a pro athletes career is shorter than ever before because of the huge money these guys are making now. You won't see many 20 year careers anymore.

Because of this economic fact, career records will be tougher to be broken IMO.

[RogerZBT]

Walter Johnson's 530 complete games. Active leader Roger Clemens isn't in the top 50 all time.

[Pocket Trips]

NO ONE will ever beat Cy Youngs record 511 wins. There are 5 man rotations and middle relievers who claim wins that starters used to get when Cy young played.

[Mansavage]

Cy Young's record for both wins and losses will never even come close to being matched. Most pithcers don't start 500+ games in their career, so winning 500 would be a very tough feat.

I find it hard to believe more people don't recognize this as the sports record that will TRULY never be broken. At least the 56 game hitting streak COULD be broken. Nobody will ever even have the chance to break Cy Young's records.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Cy Young's record for both wins and losses will never even come close to being matched.

[/ QUOTE ]
kevin brown has a shot at the loss record
seriously though, ryans K record probably doesnt get touched

[jba]

yep that's better


(I guess I lied, I wasn't that surprised after all)

[Voltron87]

Ripken's record is never going to be broken, mostly since it's a pretty useless record and no one is going to try for it.

[Sykes]

Gretsky's records for goals/assists/points.

[Lazymeatball]

So what kind of records did people talk about as 'never going to be broken' before they got broken. What did people say about the homerun record back in '85. Did anyone ever care about the consecutive games played record before Ripken jr broke it. Have records that at first seemed like they would be impossible to break ever been broken before? I don't know any sports history to give poignant examples so I'm asking for help here.

[CheckFold]

With dominant pitchers like Johnson and Clemens performing well into their 40s, I think Ryan's record is not completely safe, although it may last a while. Randy Johnson will probably not get there, but could very conceivably hit 5000, which shows you that it's touchable.

With teams in the NBA starting to run again and having success with it, a PG could come along to challenge Stockton's records as well. It's basically like 10 assts/gm for 15 full years. Someone will pass that eventually.

Like others said, pretty much all MLB wins/losses/CGs/SOs pitching records plus Gretzky's points will not be broken.

[CheckFold]

Well on Lou Gerhig's HOF plaque it mentioned that his record was "meant to stand for all time" so people pretty much saw that as unbreakable. Bob Beamon's long jump was thought to be unbreakable for a long time as well.

[CheckFold]

This will be broken eventually, but Michael Johnson's 19.32 in the 200m may be the most impressive current record out there. Has anyone else even broken 19.6?

[ArchAngel71857]

[ QUOTE ]
Gretsky's records for goals/assists/points.

[/ QUOTE ]

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
ryans K record probably doesnt get touched

[/ QUOTE ]

<---------- /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously though, I agree that things like Cy Young's win record are the safest.

If you limit it to records set in the last half of the century, then I think Gretzky's scoring records are the most untouchable. And not just because there's no hockey right now.

[JPinAZ]

Gretsky's records will probably stand because of the mess the NHL is in.

I'd say that someone would pass Nolan Ryan on the strikeout list before someone passes Rickey Henderson's 1406 career SBs . The total runs scored record is another one. Henderson is at the top with 2295 but Bonds has 2070, so a couple more years (depending on how he recovers) and it will be his.

[andyfox]

The guy (whose name escapes me) who hit two grand slam home runs in the same inning off of Chan-Ho Park. I don't think anyone will ever hit three in one inning off the same pitcher.

[tech]

[ QUOTE ]
Gretsky's records for goals/assists/points.

[/ QUOTE ]

Particularly since the NHL might cease to exist.

[RacersEdge]

Cy Young had over 500 wins. The best pitchers from here on out will be lucky to get half of that.

[Alobar]

Sorry to go ouside of the big 4 here, but if you do, Richard Pettys 200 career wins, is far and away the career record that will never be broken.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
This will be broken eventually, but Michael Johnson's 19.32 in the 200m may be the most impressive current record out there. Has anyone else even broken 19.6?

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesnt qualify, as we are talking about career records.

However, EVERY single track and field record that is standing at this current moment will be broken eventually. Thats just plain fact. The human body continues to evolve to be bigger and faster. Not to mention that science continues to evolve and that helps performance too.

yeah, his record is pretty damn awesome, but 40 years from now top high schoolers will be breaking that.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
The guy (whose name escapes me) who hit two grand slam home runs in the same inning off of Chan-Ho Park. I don't think anyone will ever hit three in one inning off the same pitcher.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fernando Tatis. With the Cardinals!

[Uston]

Wilt Chamberlain's career rebounds per game record of 22.9 will never be broken. It's probably 100:1 that anyone will top that figure for a single season ever again.

[CCass]

Pete Rose - 4,256 career hits. I player could average 200 hite a year for 21 years and still be short.

[Jack of Arcades]

Julio Franco will top the hits record when he's 89.

[kerssens]

MLB's career triples leader has 309.

[gumpzilla]

I remember coming home from cross-country practice in high school just in time for that 200m final. It is the only time I've ever seen televised track and field and been blown away by a performance.

Now on to the meat of what I was going to say: The world record that Michael Johnson broke in 1996 was held by Pietro Mennea of Italy, with a 19.72. That record was set in 1979. 26 years later, I find a grand total of 4 official, legal 200m times faster than this. 3 of those are held by Michael Johnson. 3 of them are within .06 of that 1979 record. Your comment that top high school runners in 40 years will be beating Michael Johnson's record - which is currently a full .3 seconds faster than anything else officially timed under legal conditions, as far as I can tell - just seems kind of silly when held up to these results.

[CheckFold]

Yup. It's been 9 years since 19.32 and no one has even sniffed anything close. Compare times from ~40 years ago to ones being run now. Lee Evans 43.86 in 1968 400m would have topped Jeremy Wariner's 44.00 to win the gold in Athens 2004. We're not improving nearly as fast as you think.

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
Julio Franco will top the hits record when he's 89.

[/ QUOTE ]

Next year?

-d

[andyfox]

Thanks.

[nate1729]

Did you see the race? Wariner was almost walking across the finish line.

[touchfaith]

Cy Young, Total Wins, as mentioned...

The other LOCK, not mentioned is Kareem's Total NBA Career Points. Never going to see that longevity again.

[CheckFold]

I did see the race, and remember him pulling away on the final 100, but don't remember if he let up in the last 10m or not. Nevertheless, his 44.00 is his personal record, so I can't imagine he was taking it THAT easy.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Yup. It's been 9 years since 19.32 and no one has even sniffed anything close. Compare times from ~40 years ago to ones being run now. Lee Evans 43.86 in 1968 400m would have topped Jeremy Wariner's 44.00 to win the gold in Athens 2004. We're not improving nearly as fast as you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, I just did some google, and that lee evens must have been pimp, but he has the only times on like the top 200 times that are pre 1970 (linky (http://www.algonet.se/~pela2/athletics/m_400ok.htm))

So we are clearly still evolving, and to say that micheal hohnsonsmark will never be broken is just completely ludicris. Maybe in 40 years HS wont be beating it, the smaller distances have less room for improvment, but I will guaruntee that someday they will be.

I remember my dad telling me about whats his nuts breaking the 4 minute mile, and how they said it was impossible, and then said it would never get faster than that. Now there ARE high schoolers that beat that.

[Shajen]

Rickey "Today, I am...the greatest...of all time" Henderson's stolen base + total bases record maybe?

[meep_42]

I really don't think that's evolution at work. I think it is superior nutrition and training methods, coupled with the technology level that allows some people to devote their lives to those things.

-d

[PokerNoob]

Career records that will never be broken are ones where the underlying strategy of the game has changed to the point that the conditions that lead to the records don't exist anymore. Case in point is starting pitching in baseball. Records for wins, losses, innings pitched, etc. were set in an era when the starting pitcher's role was different than it is today. They were expected to pitch more innings per game and games per season. Many of them had lengthy careers because their arms were not subject to the injuries modern players get, and they had economic incentive to keep playing vs. having to get a real job.

Another example is stolen base records, and tangentally, the 3 base hit. The stolen base is becoming increasingly irrelevant to the modern power game. IF they decide to deaden the ball, which I can't forsee happening, then the stolen base could become important again.

I think all the NFL career dropkick records are safe too.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't think that's evolution at work. I think it is superior nutrition and training methods, coupled with the technology level that allows some people to devote their lives to those things.

-d

[/ QUOTE ]

I wholely agree that that has a ton to do with it, but its also because we keep getting bigger and stronger and faster. I doubt the kid who runs the sub 4 minute mile in high school is more devoted than the guy who first broke it. I also doubt he has better nutrition. His training technique is better, but I think a HUGE part of it is just that we keep evolving.

[Voltron87]

this is not evolution, it is understanding nutritiot, our genetics and form better. evolution could not have an impact in two generations. plus, humans who run slow are not getting taken out of the gene population. I think evolution is about... zero percent of this.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
Cy Young, Total Wins, as mentioned...

The other LOCK, not mentioned is Kareem's Total NBA Career Points. Never going to see that longevity again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Malone could easily top this. I'm not saying he will, but he decided he wanted to it would not be difficult at all.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]

With teams in the NBA starting to run again and having success with it, a PG could come along to challenge Stockton's records as well. It's basically like 10 assts/gm for 15 full years. Someone will pass that eventually.


[/ QUOTE ]

15 full years would put you in the top five all time for games played. This is not an easy thing to do. After you accomplish this you have to average 10.5 a/game, which is something only magic and stockton have ever done. This is not an easy task in the least.

On the other hand take something like kareem's points record. Kareem only averaged 24.6 ppg, but it's his ridiculous games played stat that gives him the all time points lead. If Jordan or Wilt played many more games they would have crushed his record (arguably lowering their own averages, but still).

I did look into Wilt's alltime rebound record, that sucker looks pretty damn safe. He didn't play in that many games but 22.6 career average, damn...

[CheckFold]

[ QUOTE ]
this is not evolution, it is understanding nutritiot, our genetics and form better. evolution could not have an impact in two generations. plus, humans who run slow are not getting taken out of the gene population. I think evolution is about... zero percent of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely. I think in the 60s there was a huge advance in training and nutrition that saw athletes across the board make huge gains and bring us into the modern era. In the modern world, evolution would not create a bigger, stronger, and faster race of humans because we're fatter and lazier than ever before and our physical stature has virtually no baring on our survival.

Also, there was ONE high schooler who broke a 4 minute mile in like the last 35 years, that Alan Webb kid, and they made a huge deal out of him. Your typical NCAA All American will be right on the borderline of being able to break a 4 minute mile.

[CheckFold]

with the NBA though eventually you will have a kid who is able to break into the league at age 18 or 19 and play into his late 30s. I think Stockton's record will fall in the next 30 years.

[groo]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say that someone would pass Nolan Ryan on the strikeout list before someone passes Rickey Henderson's 1406 career SBs

[/ QUOTE ]

Ricky's SB record is incredible, but when steroid use wains and the long ball subsides, SB's become important again and some one will get there.

Ryan's 5700+ K's will be more difficult to reach, though better medical technology will keep hard throwers around longer in the future.

But no one will EVER even approach 511 wins.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
but when steroid use wains and the long ball subsides, SB's become important again and some one will get there.


[/ QUOTE ]

this statement just irritates me. HR explosion was NOT due to seroids. throughout baseball history, the game has went through many cycles of offense defense, way before steroids were ever an issue.

[Zoltri]

[ QUOTE ]
But no one will EVER even approach 511 wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think 300 wins would be a strech. If a pitcher started his career today, what is his motivation to play for 20 years with the wealth he achieves in five? And please don't tell me for the love of the game.

Tiger Woods is the only modern athlete that truly feels he wants to be the best and Nicklaus's records was his focus since he was old enough to remember.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
Career records that will never be broken are ones where the underlying strategy of the game has changed to the point that the conditions that lead to the records don't exist anymore. Case in point is starting pitching in baseball. Records for wins, losses, innings pitched, etc. were set in an era when the starting pitcher's role was different than it is today. They were expected to pitch more innings per game and games per season. Many of them had lengthy careers because their arms were not subject to the injuries modern players get, and they had economic incentive to keep playing vs. having to get a real job.

Another example is stolen base records, and tangentally, the 3 base hit. The stolen base is becoming increasingly irrelevant to the modern power game. IF they decide to deaden the ball, which I can't forsee happening, then the stolen base could become important again.

I think all the NFL career dropkick records are safe too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I agree with the pitching records that won't ever get touched. However, you say old pitchers weren't subject to the same injuries. They were, it's just that the game was so different that a starting pitcher rarely threw pitches at max effort. They used to just bare down when they needed to with runners on base. Now the home run is such an important factor that pitcher throw at max effort on nearly every pitch.

I could conceivably see the stolen base record being broken in the future if the game changed quite a bit. If at some point in the future pitchers begin to dominate like they have at certain points in the past, the stolen base could become a huge weapon again.

[CheckFold]

Why does Doyle Brunson feel compelled to continue playing poker? Why does Bill Gates continue to work? You told me not to, but I'm going to go ahead and say for the love of the game. Pitching doesn't necessarily tear the body apart like what most football and even older basketball players will experience. It's very feasible for a very rich pitcher to want to continue to play into his 40s like Clemens, Johnson, Wells, etc... have done recently. Also, a lot of modern athletes seem to want to max out their lifestyle, so they'll try to keep the huge paydays coming as long as possible.

[Zoltri]

Good points.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does Doyle Brunson feel compelled to continue playing poker? Why does Bill Gates continue to work? You told me not to, but I'm going to go ahead and say for the love of the game. Pitching doesn't necessarily tear the body apart like what most football and even older basketball players will experience. It's very feasible for a very rich pitcher to want to continue to play into his 40s like Clemens, Johnson, Wells, etc... have done recently. Also, a lot of modern athletes seem to want to max out their lifestyle, so they'll try to keep the huge paydays coming as long as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the part about pitching fitness. With the new styles of rotation and relief, combined with better team physicians and sports medecine in general, more and more pitchers are going to be doing what Clemens is doing. Maybe not quite as well, but you will se more of it. Pitching doesn't even begin to approach football, with the exception of maybe QB.

Pitchers today pitch every 5 days, for 100ish pitches... much less than in the past and with a much better support system.

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
I wholely agree that that has a ton to do with it, but its also because we keep getting bigger and stronger and faster. I doubt the kid who runs the sub 4 minute mile in high school is more devoted than the guy who first broke it. I also doubt he has better nutrition. His training technique is better, but I think a HUGE part of it is just that we keep evolving.

[/ QUOTE ]

Evolution doesn't work that quickly -- selective breeding, sure, but not evolution, not over 4 or 5 generations.

-d

[arod4276]

I have some some bad bad news for a few of you..Micheal johnsons 200 record was beaten about a month or 2 ago.. google it ,,,,arod4276

[CheckFold]

don't think so

[beckham9]

[ QUOTE ]


Tiger Woods is the only modern athlete that truly feels he wants to be the best and Nicklaus's records was his focus since he was old enough to remember.

[/ QUOTE ]


a well substantiated fact.........back up by a plethora of empirical data ....well done indeed

[Voltron87]

Jordan? Jeter? Armstrong?

[thatpfunk]

What about some of Jerry' Rice's records:

257 consecutive games catching a pass

Rice's 20,859 yards outdistance James Lofton, No. 2 on the career list, by 6,855. Rice is still going. Lofton's retired.

Others:
Total Touchdowns: 203
Receiving Touchdowns: 192
Receptions: 1,456
Receiving Yards: 21,598
Total Yards: 22,146
1,000 Yard Receiving Seasons: 14
Consecutive games with an NFL reception: 257
Receiving yards in a season: 1,848 in 1995
Receiving TDs in a season: 22 in just 12 games played in 1987 (avg 1 td per 3 catches, insanity!)
Games with 100+ receiving yards: 73
Games with multiple TDs: 41
Consecutive NFL games with a touchdown: 13
Consecutive 50-Catch Seasons: 12

Postseason Records
Receptions: 151
Receiving yards: 2,283
Receiving touchdowns: 22
100+ receiving yard games: 8
Consecutive games with a reception: 28
Consecutive 100+ yard games: 3
Total touchdowns: 22
Total postseason yards: 2,288

Super Bowl Records
Career Receptions: 33
Career Receiving yards: 589
Career Receiving TDs: 8
Career Touchdowns: 8
Most receptions in a game: 11 (SB XXIII)
Most receiving yards in a game: 215 (SB XXIII)
Most receiving touchdowns in a game: 3 (SB XXIV and SB XXIX)
Most touchdowns in a game: 3 (SB XXIV and SB XXIX)
Most points: 48
Most points in a game: 18
Fastest TD scored in a game: 1 minute, 24 seconds (SB XXIV)


Obviously some of these will be broken. But, total yards and catches plus his staggering 22 TD's in 12 games (on 66 catches) seems unbeatable.

If someone says Moss for something other than the total TD record I will throw up in my mouth.

[John Bunnell]

Ricky Henderson's stolen base record seems safe considering that nobody steals anymore.

[arod4276]

CHECKFOLD... how much would u care to wager on it? arod4276

[MrFeelNothin]

[ QUOTE ]
I have some some bad bad news for a few of you..Micheal johnsons 200 record was beaten about a month or 2 ago.. google it ,,,,arod4276

[/ QUOTE ]

so the record was broken and it wasnt newsworthy? i never heard of it, cant find anything about it.

i call bull. i would love for you to prove me wrong, but you know how it is, i cant always get what i want.

[KaneKungFu123]

[ QUOTE ]
Cy Young, Total Wins, as mentioned...

The other LOCK, not mentioned is Kareem's Total NBA Career Points. Never going to see that longevity again.

[/ QUOTE ]

joking right?

[Tron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have some some bad bad news for a few of you..Micheal johnsons 200 record was beaten about a month or 2 ago.. google it ,,,,arod4276

[/ QUOTE ]

so the record was broken and it wasnt newsworthy? i never heard of it, cant find anything about it.

i call bull. i would love for you to prove me wrong, but you know how it is, i cant always get what i want.

[/ QUOTE ]

arod here is completely incorrect. Michael Johnson's 400m record was broken on March 13... Actually, broken doesn't do it justice. Kerron Clement, a 19-year-old who runs for the University of Floria destroyed it by 0.06 seconds. Link. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/4344569.stm)

No one is close to the 200m that I know of.

[groo]

[ QUOTE ]
HR explosion was NOT due to seroids.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you to an extent. Adding four teams and thinning out pitching added to HR totals as well. Players anticipated the thinned out pitching and spent more time in the gym, furthering the effect. However, I don't believe that HUGE increase in the number of 50 and 60 and the advent of 70 HR seasons was simply do to thinned out pitching and longer sessions at the gym. I might have bought that arguement 2 years ago, but the coincidence of baseball starting a steroid policy and the sudden drop off in large single season HR totals is amazing. I mean, these guys are still working out, and the pitching is just as thin. The only difference I see is lower steriod use.

[ QUOTE ]
throughout baseball history, the game has went through many cycles of offense defense

[/ QUOTE ]

Help me out on this one. I understand how a good short stop makes it more difficult to get a base hit, but unless you're refering to thinned out pitching, at what level does defense stop the HR?

Love your avatar, btw /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[jcmack13]

He broke the 400m INDOOR record. Anyone who runs track will tell you indoor and outdoor are totally different animals.

Michael Johnson is still the man who has run the fastest 400m ever.

[sourbeaver]

Gretzky's season record for goals and points.

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
Career records that will never be broken are ones where the underlying strategy of the game has changed to the point that the conditions that lead to the records don't exist anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the only way that a record can be considered unbreakable. You look at Gretzky's records or Rice's records, sure they are amazing, but over the next fifty years it is fathomable that a better player will come along and break them. There might only be a 5% chance of that happening, but it is possible. Cy Young's records, however, are completely unbreakable under the rules and methods of modern baseball.

[girgy44]

[ QUOTE ]
NO ONE will ever beat Cy Youngs record 511 wins. There are 5 man rotations and middle relievers who claim wins that starters used to get when Cy young played.

[/ QUOTE ]

The clear choice.

[Richie Rich]

[ QUOTE ]
Pete Rose - 4,256 career hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but when steroid use wains and the long ball subsides, SB's become important again and some one will get there.


[/ QUOTE ]

this statement just irritates me. HR explosion was NOT due to seroids. throughout baseball history, the game has went through many cycles of offense defense, way before steroids were ever an issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the recent homerun explosion was not entirely due to steroid abuse. However, what percentage of league wide homeruns do you suppose could be attributed to steroid use? Five percent? More? Point is, the new steroid policies could have an impact on the game.