This laydown sucks, right?

[Fnord]

BB is sTAggy
CO is loose/passive, but knows how to fold


Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Fnord is SB with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Fnord completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Fnord bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Fnord 3-bets</font>, BB calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Fnord bets</font>, BB calls, CO calls.

River: (11 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Fnord bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, CO calls, Fnord folds.

Final Pot: 16 BB

[PokerSparky]

FWIW, I can't remember the last time I folded a set on the river without 4 to a staight or flush on the board.

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I can't remember the last time I folded a set on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Last time I did it, there was 5 crubs on the board and neither of my Aces was a crub.

[PokerSparky]

Was that before or after the hand you just posted. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[wrto4556]

You say the BB is TAG. Why would he face the field with 2 cold on the flop holding two hearts?

I call.

[purnell]

Yes this fold is bad IMO. Pot odds warrant a call here.

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
especially heads up.

[/ QUOTE ]

3

[purnell]

my bad /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
You say the BB is TAG. Why would he face the field with 2 cold on the flop holding two hearts?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i think something like 87 is more likely here.

65 or flush is possible, but i think just the fact that a TAG would likely play the single 87 combination like this warrants a call. 16 BB is a huge pot... and i doubt you can be 95% sure that you're beat here.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
You say the BB is TAG. Why would he face the field with 2 cold on the flop holding two hearts?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I was holding two small overcards to the board that were hearts I would raise to try and knock out KQ/KJ/Ax hands to increase my chances of winning if I hit a top pair hand on the turn (Plus I've got the flush draw and I'm definitely not putting Fnord on a set).

[crunchy1]

When you're holding a strong hand like good 2-pair or a set and every draw comes in on the river in a multiway pot when you've been the aggressor the whole way I think you have two options:

(a) Bet and call 1 raise (I think it's a safe fold if CO would've 3-bet)
(b) Check and call (or overcall) 1 Bet (I think it's a safe fold if BB bets and CO raises)

If you can't call a raise on the river with this hand then don't bet it. Personally, against those two player types I would've check/called. I think that BB will take a shot with a weaker hand many times but, will usually raise with a better hand. CO will usually call 1 with a weaker hand but maybe not 2. It's a scary river for you and I don't think there's a huge difference even if you miss a bet every once-in-awhile when it gets checked through.

[Steve S]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't call a raise on the river with this hand then don't bet it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree more!

[CanKid]

I think you see 2 pair more than 1/16 here.

[thejameser]

if you are willing to bet into possible flush and straight draws on the river you need to be willing to complete the hand, otherwise check/call. yes the laydown sucks. whether you actually would have won or not, the pot warranted a river check/call anyway.

[brettbrettr]

I don't think its terrible. BB really looks to be on the flush draw. That said, I know I don't fold here, but I might suck.

[Chris Dow]

As far as the fold, it sucks, your line has to be bet/call and when they have the frush god bless them.

The place for improvement as I see it, is not 3 betting the flop. After the cold caller you're going to be able to generate some tremendous value from cring any non heart on the turn. I think your 3 bet on the flop is going to win you less than going for the cr on the turn in this spot. Cring does not change the fact that the river is bet/call.

[MagicFlea]

Definition - terrible: this river play.

before he bets he has two options:

"I only want to pay one bet" Apparently this is the one he wanted... so why the hell wouldn't you check-call and guarantee yourself a showdown?

"I don't mind paying two bets because I think MHIG" So you value bet and call a raise.

He ended up paying the same amount of money to fold that he could have paid to see the showdown... ack

(not trying to be harsh, I've made 2 or 3 worse mistakes than this today /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

by the way... what flush draw/56 does BB check preflop and raise the flop? most of the hands you wouldn't raise preflop you would try and keep people in for when your draw hit, no?

[alul]

I would be more concerned about CO. He was obviously on some kind of draw. And BB likely has something like 87. Anyway, the river completes too many draws, I check call here.