The Turn Decision... Party 3/6 Craziness

[W. Deranged]

I apologize if anyone finds this post boring, but I always have a hard time in situations where I have a hand on the turn that may be good but also could benefit from a free card. My tendency is always to bet (thinking the combination of my equity from the draw plus the need to protect a marginal hand always adds up to a bet). Here's an example...

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Deranged is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Deranged raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, CO folds.

Flop: (9.33 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Deranged bets</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (5.66 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Deranged bets</font>, UTG+2 calls.

River: (7.66 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, Deranged checks.

Final Pot: 7.66 BB

[Yobz]

You might have up to 15 outs of opp doesn't have an A or K and there is a decent chance he will fold, so I don't hate it. If you checked behind there is an excellent chance villian will bet into you on the river, making you regret your turn passiveness. A turn c/r wouldn't suck too much since you have plenty of outs, so I think this play is good..

[Argus]

Check behind the turn, call a bet on the river to snap a bluff from another missed flush. It would be a bit different if you had a pair of jacks as well, but with nothing but nut no-pair and a strong draw, I think you should take the free card. Betting opens you to a check/raise, and any hand you fold is probably doing so correctly. Check with outs, bet without. You have outs.

[Yobz]

[ QUOTE ]
Check behind the turn, call a bet on the river to snap a bluff from another missed flush. It would be a bit different if you had a pair of jacks as well, but with nothing but nut no-pair and a strong draw, I think you should take the free card. Betting opens you to a check/raise, and any hand you fold is probably doing so correctly. Check with outs, bet without. You have outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are probably right, but is his line that much worse? If I check behind the turn and villian bets the river, I feel like a 2-bit whore calling the raise even though I have to...plus, if the river brought the 4-flush, villian might bluff since it doesn't look like we are drawing (we bet the whole time), but if we check the turn behind, the flush card might make him check/fold if he is a thinking player...

[Fnord]

I like the turn bet better unless you have an aggressive read on the villian. It will win the most and lose the least against a passive player. However, if he's capable of c/ring the turn or you will often draw a bluff then the turn check becomes the better way to go.

[Shillx]

Standard. Turn bet is good because a) you might have the best hand and you want to charge him and b) you might get a better hand to fold.

Brad

Edit: And there there is also c) even if you get called by a better hand you will often win the pot anyway.

[W. Deranged]

That has always been my thought...

[Yobz]

I know I'm getting better at this game when shill agrees with me /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[steamboatin]

I bet the river.

He might fold a slightly better hand. My hand might be good. If He is a thinking player and sees me betting A high like it is the nuts, it makes it almost guarantees, that I will get paid off later when I make a hand against him.

Betting gives you one more chance to win and it has advertising value. I bet.

[steamboatin]

Sorry, should be guaranteed

[Pominos]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

After having bet the turn here, I bet the river too. Looks like villain is drawing with Q /images/graemlins/club.gif or K /images/graemlins/club.gif here often enough to bake a last bet profitable.

[chief444]

I think doing anything but betting this turn is pretty bad. You have the best hand a lot of the time. You have the best draw to back that up.

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I bet the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

After having bet the turn here, I bet the river too. Looks like villain is drawing with Q /images/graemlins/club.gif or K /images/graemlins/club.gif here often enough to bake a last bet profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does that make a bet profitable? K/Qc is not calling your bet. A hand with a pair that's called your turn bet is folding here never. You're going to be called only by hands that beat you, and any worse hand is folding. Check behind and take your free showdown.

I'm betting this river never, and it's NOT CLOSE.

[Chris Dow]

I bet the whole way here, including the river. With the poster and stuff this isn't the smallest pot in the world. I bet the river for a multitude of reasons, my hand might not show down so they have to guess about whether I will bet the turn with only the ace, I might get called by a worse ace (at 2/4 where I play this is rare but possible), and I might get a better hand to fold (if at 3/6 they'll fold rather than call again with a marginal pair because you fired the whole way, I think this is possible, think about small/middle pairs with clubs that are just confused but get sucked along) Argue away, but the bet has some image value imo, and on the river it isn't a huge mistake and has some positives other than just the advertising.

[Pominos]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I bet the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

After having bet the turn here, I bet the river too. Looks like villain is drawing with Q /images/graemlins/club.gif or K /images/graemlins/club.gif here often enough to bake a last bet profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does that make a bet profitable? K/Qc is not calling your bet. A hand with a pair that's called your turn bet is folding here never. You're going to be called only by hands that beat you, and any worse hand is folding. Check behind and take your free showdown.

I'm betting this river never, and it's NOT CLOSE.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. I do think a hand with a low pair and the Q/K /images/graemlins/club.gif might fold the river here. But now I realise that no such hands are possible. So a check behind is right.