Talk me out of it

[stupidsucker]

All of what I am about to say is very hypothetical, but still not entirely out of the question.

I have run this idea past some people, and most laugh. Perhaps I dont understand the issue, or perhaps I am just too much of a dreamer.

Cutting to the chase.

Given the funding comes through(This is the big if)
I want to start my own poker site.

Many of us have been very unhappy with the support of the sites we have offered to us now. So many have tried, but every site that has a good player base falls short of my expectations. Those of us that play reguarly sink in tons of tons of tons of $$$rake$$$ into them and in return we get nothing. I have heard horror storys from players like Daliman that cant get a refund on a game after sinkning in thousands upon thousands of $$into their rake.

In short.... I plan to seriously create and market a new poker site that will rival the monopoly.

Main factors I will change is.

1)VIP customer support(Anyone spending X$$/rake/XX or anyone pissed off.

2)Built in rake back bonus

3)A steps program that is worth it

4) Lower rake in general

5) Eventualy very very big tables


Before anyone scoffs and points out how big of a prodject this is spare me that detail. I am not planing on throwing it into cyberspace tomorrow. Right now its a glimmer in my head and relying on some big ifs already, but you have to have a plan right?... just in case.

My questions are.

Is there room for another poker site?
Does a newcommer have the chance to take over as a/the main provider?
Would you leave your current provider if a new provider offered up just as many players with better support and lower rake?


Sorry if it sounds crazy, but I am a dreamer. Just wondering....

Have fun with it or bring me down to earth, but be serious.

[TheUsher]

I'll try not to be negative at all, and ooooo just imagine if a bunch of 2+2'ers started it. It would be like, *perfect*. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sounds like climbing up Mount Everest but hey, it could be done if you're really dedicated and have an almost unlimited supply of capital with a big stomach for losses.

[mackthefork]

The trouble with new poker sites seems to be, you need players to get players, Catch 22!

All your ideas sound good, but my first and only point is likely to be the biggest hurdle, this would probably make the loss making period so long that all but the deepest of pockets would fail.

Having said that I wish you good luck if you try it.

[ QUOTE ]
but you have to have a plan right?.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep

Regards Mack

[microbet]

My guesses.

6 person-years to get the project get ready to launch with very good people.

Advertising/marketing expenses could vary wildly depending on how much cheap labor intensive marketing is done, but $100k easy.

There are legal issues. I don't know the current status, but I did see something a long time ago where the operators of a site couldn't even come the US without getting arrested.

[Voltron87]

Couple points...

1. I would have to wonder if the market is saturated.

2. The things you should improve are no doubt better support and "housekeeping".

3. Lowering the rake is not going to help you. Only the hardcore players analyze their rake and to 90% of them care more about the quality of play than the rake. Lowering rake is not going to bring in many more players.

3. If I were you I would look at other recently started sites and see how they did. If they didn't do a bad job and flopped, that is something to take into account.

4. You would have to do several things to succeed, most importantly bring in tons of bad players. This requires a huge ad campaign and slick software and presentation. Treat them right, offer good 24 7 american based support and they will stay. Add in good rakeback and the pros will follow.

[The Student]

I have debated this issue with a friend of mine for the past couple of years too. It seems like there are so many crappy sites out there, how hard would it really be to create a good one? Well, the roadblock that my friend and I eventually hit was startup $. You need an enormous BR to start something like this. Obviously you'll need the equipment (servers and such) as well as huge advertising campaigns to bring in the players, but let's say you do have enough startup $ to make a go of it.

Then you face a second problem in the business plan - you're talking about a top rate customer service team, one that will need to expand as your player base grows. Unfortunately, all that customer service is going to get pretty expensive. There are ways to cut costs, such as buying a call center in India (as per Party/Empire), but then you lose the quality of customer service that you offer. The top-notch customer service, along with the lower rake, sounds great to me as a player, but I'm just not sure how you can make this work as the CFO.

Hate to rain on the parade, but you asked me to talk you out of it. These would be my first concerns.

ts-

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
The trouble with new poker sites seems to be, you need players to get players, Catch 22!

All your ideas sound good, but my first and only point is likely to be the biggest hurdle, this would probably make the loss making period so long that all but the deepest of pockets would fail.

Having said that I wish you good luck if you try it.

[ QUOTE ]
but you have to have a plan right?.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep

Regards Mack

[/ QUOTE ]

I have given this a ton of thought..

My solutions range in a few ideas.

A) A beta stage that will be rl money played but with zero rake.
B)I wanted to start out by offereing a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE bonus, but one that paid over time. This would attract everyone. All the bonus whores would come, fish see ig big free bonus $$, and it will always be in their account luring them back to deposit. 2+2ers will come if enough fish are there. plus they will come because I will be putting some posters on my think tank team.
C)Good marketing is important to get players in fast. I plan to honestly make this invitation only at first. I plan to have different skins and they will be marketed differently, but never even remotly hide the fact that we are still the same poker site.

[microbet]

IF party is making a huge ROI, THEN there is room in the market.

[Phoenix1010]

Wow. Good luck if you actually decide to go through with it. I'm sure you know the obvious point, that it will take a ridiculously large time and money investment, not to mention luck, to pan out. The losses you'll take while trying to build a player base through propping and bonus incentives will be a tough hurdle to climb. The player base is really what makes any one site worth playing at in the end though, and it takes one to grow one. The established sites have such a huge head start that I really don't think a new site can crack into the business successfully unless they have one of three things, or some combination:

A truly new and exciting innovation that revolutionizes the way online poker is played (I predict that whoever introduces video poker will snag a nice corner of the market);

An incredible gimmick that will get the average poker player's attention (like sponsorship from a well-known pro);

Or some really really kick ass player incentives (ie bonuses, your rakeback idea sounds nifty, but may not be enough to carry the site to success).

I wish you the best in this endeavor, should choose to pursue it.

-Phoenix

[stupidsucker]

money isnt an issue.

I know this may sound corny, but I am playing in the wsop this year, and I have geven thought to exactly what would I do with th money if I won. I would want a plan. Sure its far fetched, but its a lot better odds then wnning the lottery.

Anyways... money isnt an issue. This will only happen if I have a few milion I can sink into it for fun. Its a dreamers post of what if.

So what if?

Is it really such a bad idea?

I honestly dont want to use the money to bankroll myself for the tour. Its not the life I want, and thats if I could even beat it.

[microbet]

Here's a business model:

6 2+2'ers
1/2 time playing poker - 1/2 time working on the site and preparing for the eventual marketing blitz - 2 years, maybe 3.

[Bigwig]

There's always room in a free market. Just remember that you're taking on some big competition here. I don't know what Party grosses per year, but we're certainly talking about a company that's worth over $100 million.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
An incredible gimmick that will get the average poker player's attention (like sponsorship from a well-known pro);

[/ QUOTE ]

The people that want this already play on full tilt.

I would rather create a place where the pros want to play. The fish that like to play with the pros will follow anyways. I plan to do this by offering a GREAT rake back plan for anyone that that spends $$$/month. I will also offer some nice big games. I do plan on getting some good people behind me, but not to shove in the lime lite like a circus clown. More in the behind the scences things to gain trust from bigger money players. Id rather make the players/fish feel like they are the star.

The market is full of different kinds of people.Fish are made up of a wide variety of types. As are the pros.

Some want recognition
some want good rake
some are only in it for fun
some are bonus whores(literly)

The fish need to be treated properly in order to keep them swimming, and the pros want the best $$/hour they can muster.(I plan to make it possible for people to apply for the ability to 8tbale at my site)

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a business model:

6 2+2'ers
1/2 time playing poker - 1/2 time working on the site and preparing for the eventual marketing blitz - 2 years, maybe 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK you can be in... I need 4 more volunteers. You may not get paid for your efforts. Project public launch date scheduled for April 2007.

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
There are legal issues. I don't know the current status, but I did see something a long time ago where the operators of a site couldn't even come the US without getting arrested.


[/ QUOTE ]

I dont understand all this either. But I do know the cardroom manager for Pokerstars lives in San Jose.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it really such a bad idea?


[/ QUOTE ]

No, its a fine idea, if you had the money to sink in its possible to make it a success if you stuck to your original principals of customer service.

The betting and gaming indusry is notorious for not reacting to new competitors improved levels of service, instead they prefer to open up more betting opportunities and give more choice, "so now we have even more crap products for you to choose from sir", kinda like a supermarket selling 3 kinds of toothpaste that all make your teeth go green.

Like I said with deep pockets it could be done.

Mack

[Slim Pickens]

I think you need professional marketing and software development. Although you could probably find that among 2+2'ers, why limit yourself? It doesn't take good poker players to run a good poker site, and the best poker players may not run the best poker site.

Slim

[Newt_Buggs]

If you could get it to work it would be awesome, but it seems like thats a really big if. If you look around at the dozens of poker sites, i think you will realize that most of what you are proposing has been implemented in some of these sites. IE: a lot of sites already offer huge deposit bonuses ($600) that take forever to unlock. A lot of other sites also have great marketing campaigns and just can't rival party poker that is already established. Basically, I think its going to be really hard to find anything you can provide that the dozens of sites dont already provide AND that the average player (fish) cares about.

oh yeah, and i 2nd whoever already said that the rake doesn't matter except to the kind of people like us that would post on 2+2. Go to a $5 table on party and i bet 9 out of the 10 people don't realize they are paying a 20% rake and getting ripped off.

I don't mean to discourage you though, I think this is an awesome goal and I would be behind you 100% if you tried it. I hate just about everything about party poker and would gladly go to another site that could rival their fish count.

[TheUsher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's a business model:

6 2+2'ers
1/2 time playing poker - 1/2 time working on the site and preparing for the eventual marketing blitz - 2 years, maybe 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK you can be in... I need 4 more volunteers. You may not get paid for your efforts. Project public launch date scheduled for April 2007.

[/ QUOTE ]

I, as well as lots of others, would probably love to be in on this. If possible that is. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, damn you're tight! /images/graemlins/wink.gif (still at 3)

[tomdemaine]

Would be a great thing to have a 2+2 poker site. I had a great idea (well I thought so anyway) of how a poker site could be unique and attract a lot of completly new players to them game would love to contribute if this is more than a pipe dream.

[TheDrone]

I agree that customer service is lacking on most sites. However, given the glut of competition out there, you would need to offer much more than best in class customer service. You would also need to be best in class for ALL of the following to have any chance of attracting and keeping enough customers to become profitable:
(1)Software
(2)Rake
(3)Structure
(4)Promotions and events
(5)Stats and hand histories
(6)Continuous improvement/innovation

One of the biggest reasons why many sites lack good customer service is that it's very labor intensive, especially in a 24x7 environment. There is no way to run a low cost operation that has good customer service. Even if you were to become profitable, your margins would be very thin.

You would also need to have near perfect execution. One screw up is all it takes to scare away customers when they have so many other options. You can have the best plan in the world and fall flat on your face with poor execution.

And, finally, the massive growth rates in online poker would need to continue long enough for your site to become well established. No one can accurately predict when they will level off, but it will definitely happen.

To put it in poker terms, I think you are at best a coin flip and at worst a big dog for all your chips. That's being generous, and it's nothing personal.

[suited_ace]

I think your idea is great. The only problem is finding a VC to back you up. Having better service and less rake is certainly something that would be very attractive for people like us, but you have to remember that we're the minority of players (and our bankrolls would really appreciate if we kept it like this).

I think your main focus has to shift to 2 things: making a great piece of software and making some great advertising and design.

I think the only poker site with a fairly decent piece of software is PokerStars, but even their software could be greatly improved. There isn't one site that has a newbie-friendly interface. The software should at least have a tutorial for all those players that watch poker on TV and decide to give it a try, explain them how everything works, what's Neteller, what are ring games, SnGs, MTTs, etc... Looks are very important too: make it look as good as Mac OS X (or better), and people will trust your site. It's as simple as that.

You could also have an add-on package with features for guys like us: stats tracking, a hand replayer, an option to back-up your HHs, etc...

After this is done, get one kick-ass ad agency like Crispin Porter + Bogusky (http://www.cpbgroup.com/), Goodby, Silverstein & Partners (http://www.gspsf.com/), etc... (PM me if you need more names). Get your name out as being THE BEST place for playing poker online, period.

Do these two things and you'll be up and running (and absurdely rich) in no time.

[LeVoodoo]

I think it is possible. I have planned one myself. It's but a pipe dream right now, but who knows..

[Big Limpin']

May i suggest you offer SnG's at these levels:

$5+1
$10+1
$20+1
$30+1
$50+1
$100+1
$200+1
$500+1
$1000+1

No rakeback necessary. No signup bonus either. You'll get my business.

[skipperbob]

Six Years too Late; $6 Million short on the estimate to start....But I admire the willingness to try...G/L

[Al P]

[ QUOTE ]
May i suggest you offer SnG's at these levels:

$5+.50
$10+.50
$20+.50
$30+.50
$50+.50
$100+1
$200+2
$500+5
$1000+10

No rakeback necessary. No signup bonus either. You'll get my business.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

You need some money to cover the chance of deposit/credit card fraud at higher levels. Not to mention money for a staff to monitor for collusion/chip dumping.

[DonButtons]

Can I put in a special request to always run good? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[adanthar]

Your best bet isn't to open a site, really. It's to open something like a Prima skin, build up some cash from advertising here to rakeback specialists and then use that money to start your own site years down the line.

Opening your own site right now is almost impossible. I'm not saying it would be, but Full Tilt/Gamesgrid are the two models that haven't been done yet (every pro under the sun/established backgammon gaming corp branching out) and FT, the better established of the two, is just barely on the map after eight months. Then there's places like Zerorake or Pokermountain that are dead or on their way.

If I had the type of startup capital you are talking about and wanted a gambling site, I would start with opening a skin and sink the money into ads.

[valenzuela]

Maybe u could have a site with only sngs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! turbo sngs!, 10handed sng!, 10 handed winner takes all sngs!,3 handed sngs!, heads-up sngs!,or even more maniacal players can invent their own structure !!!! it would be called sitandgos.com...the slogan would be " play and compete with valenzuela the new exciting pro"
EDIT: seriously though, no need to have cash games they are boring.

[stupidsucker]

I have given thought to a skin, but I feel there would probably be too many limitations.

Besides, in the long run it defeats the "vision".. using a skin compounds the problem.

[microbet]

Nice avatar.

[microbet]

All the finer points for serving good players well in nice, but good players mostly want fish. Fish need it to be very easy to sign up, but other than that, top flight customer service isn't so important.

To get fish, you need free play, bonuses, easy interface, and advertising.

Not that this would attract a lot of people, but I would be interested in room that allowed bots and even gave you an interface for programming the bots.

As for Skips $6 million, that might be one way to do it, but if you did have a large team of owners a lot of that funding could be in the form of opportunity cost.

Also, does that casino official live in San Jose, CA or San Jose, Costa Rica?

[eastbay]

Five posts. I can tell you've been thinking about this.

Alright, 99% for entertainment's sake, how would you improve on Party besides lowering the rake? I can only think of a couple things:

1 - An automated deal-making interface. Certainly for MTT final tables, maybe even for SnGs (a preference for "no deals" would be essential).

2 - Support speaks English as a native language. Not even sure this is +$EV, though.

What else?

eastbay

[The Student]

Well, #3 would have been figure out a way to reserve a seat at a table before it got swiped because you didn't have enough time to click ok for the buy-in, but it looks like they figured this out a few weeks ago. I'm still thinking though that the customer service is a huge drain on the coffers.

I like your idea of an automated deal making system at the MTTs.

ts-

[stupidsucker]

This may sound ridiculous, but I dont want to publicly explain all my ideas. I would happily go over with it with you though sometime. I wrote some things down.,


Most of it deals with just keeping players rewarded. This appeals to both fish and pros. Part of keeping the pros around is just having fish there.

Steps is a wonderful idea gone horribly wrong. Its great to give lower level players the chance to move up for small $$, but the vaccume is self imploding for everyone involved. I have several ideas to impliment a steps type system that will benefit everyone.

anyways, ive hardly tipped into the barrel of explaining ideas.

[Blarg]

I think it would be very hard to overcome the advantages your competitors already have, that being a huge established player base and ongoing advertising. These seem to be the two things that persuade people to play at a site most, assuming getting money in and out of the site is a quick, easy, and non-intimidating process. Not structure, rakeback, or anything "fancy" like that.

The player base, you can't do anything about until you've been very successful for a long time. You will not be competitive in this area, discouraging people from coming to your site. Like most customers, I want to get in games NOW, not later, and I want a wide selection of them, not a narrow one. New sites can't do it for me on that level.

The other advantage to overcome is other sites' marketing budgets and name recognition. Pokerstars and Party both have name recognition for their various reasons, and both advertise on t.v., as does Pacific Poker. I don't see how you could be remotely competitive in these areas without spending a fortune in marketing, which is exactly what a start-up doesn't have the cash for.

So I don't see what you can do to bring in new customers that is competitive with the big boys. That means you'll have to have some really deep pockets and probably expect some losses for quite a while. IF your site was good from the first, it would still take a long time for it to carve out an attractive niche in the market that would sustain its growth. And it would constantly be fighting the bigger player base and better marketing of your competition. This doesn't seem like the kind of venture that has a good chance of success unless you have truly outstanding expertise and some significant money backing you.

[Voltron87]

I see that you want to create a more player friendly site. Your idea of doing this is to basically give more money away than the other sites, through rakeback, bonuses, softer rake, etc. This is not going to get you many more players, in the grand scheme of things. If you want to treat players better improve customer service, transaction time, and support.

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]

Part of keeping the pros around is just having fish there.


[/ QUOTE ]
IMO, this is almost all of keeping the pros around

Also, theres a reason why Party Poker set up the steps the way they did.....its profitable for them. The fish who feed into level one on step higher are getting burned no matter what the rake is. They aren't going to win 100 K whether party is taking a 1% rake or 10% rake at every level, so party figures they might as well take a bigger cut and feed fewer fish into step 5 for the pros to devour.
If you made a fair steps system I would be there in a second, except that I would be the only one sitting at the table because everyone else would still be on party because they don't even understand that there is a true rake past level one in steps tournaments.

[microbet]

This is just the sort of thing that gets me thinking. I haven't really thought about a whole poker site. I just have an idea or two for poker tools.

I would be interested in having rooms for bots to play, but I don't think there would be huge demand for that.

It is just a pretty low barrier to entry for a business and I don't think the prospect to make a little money is horrible.

From a profit point of view I wouldn't change party's software much. Can you private chat with other players? Can you jump right out and go HU against someone? If you can, it could be easier. Finding a player on the site doesn't work too well. Sharks wouldn't want built-in tools like playerview because it would be too easy for everyone else and it wouldn't attract fish either.

From a marketing point of view, I would think bonuses bonuses bonuses. I would definitely go after the masses, not the sharks.

I don't think it is easy money for sure, but it doesn't sound like that is all that stupidsucker is interested in. Personally, I would be pretty wary of investing a lot into something that might force me to move to Antigua; not that there is anything wrong with Antigua.

Stupidsucker, you are in Vegas right? What about opening a small B&M poker room specializing in SNGs? That might be more fun.

[DaveKForty7]

I think I'd rather try my hand at opening a small cardroom. The online scene just seems like such a risk.

[ilya]

Better rewards for Frequent Player Points. Like, being able to get cool electronic gadgets if you save up enough points. Video games maybe. You know, stuff that young(ish) guys actually *want.*

[TightAggro]

I personally don't see why people would play anywhere other than Party. The games are so soft there, that it wouldn't matter how much less rake I would have to pay. Your battle is a long, uphill battle, but I'm all for the underdog...best of luck man!

[tjh]

[ QUOTE ]
money isnt an issue.

I know this may sound corny, but I am playing in the wsop this year, and I have geven thought to exactly what would I do with th money if I won. I would want a plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

GO FOR IT !!

Is there room? Yes

Most of the recently launched sites have a "NAME" behind them. Become a name yourself or try to find a marketing plan that rivals the presence of a name.

Run the numbers by your average millionare and they will start to drool. I mean how many dollars a minute does Party bring in ??


It boggles the mind.

Do not underestimate the startup costs. Find as much cash as you can.
--
tjh

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Better rewards for Frequent Player Points. Like, being able to get cool electronic gadgets if you save up enough points. Video games maybe. You know, stuff that young(ish) guys actually *want.*

[/ QUOTE ]

Like cash?

It doesnt cost anything to send, and everyone gets what they want with it.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Better rewards for Frequent Player Points. Like, being able to get cool electronic gadgets if you save up enough points. Video games maybe. You know, stuff that young(ish) guys actually *want.*

[/ QUOTE ]

Like cash?

It doesnt cost anything to send, and everyone gets what they want with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cash is good, sure. But what about an exclusive edition of some cool gadget.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Better rewards for Frequent Player Points. Like, being able to get cool electronic gadgets if you save up enough points. Video games maybe. You know, stuff that young(ish) guys actually *want.*

[/ QUOTE ]

Like cash?

It doesnt cost anything to send, and everyone gets what they want with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cash is good, sure. But what about an exclusive edition of some cool gadget.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the points should be redeemable for scrippas...

This has great marketing potential.

Yugoslav
Who works in advertising so *obviously* knows what he's talking about, biatches!

[Daliman]

A good friend of mine with a TON of poker friends and connections did this, and lost a ton.

[elonkra]

The market is NOT saturated. There is a huge market for a good product. Having the funds and know-how to rival the big dogs is gonna be the problem. I don't think your biggest hurdle will be developing a base of players. I think this can be done relatively quickly with advertising, unique signup specials, whatever those guys are called who get paid to play, and legal spam, if there is such a thing. I played at americascardroom.com for over a year, and the fact that that site is still afloat is enough for me to know that you don't have to have an unbelievably great player base to turn a profit. That site is staying afloat in spite of the fact that it has virtually no growh (there are no sit and go's going on at 3am on a weeknight, and probably 40 players top sitting at cash games). Yet they're still in business. The sad thing is, they'd grow if they fixed their numerous problems. Your biggest problem will be providing a product that is equal to (or better than, if that's truly what you're shooting for) that which is provided by the bigname competitors. It can't be that easy.

[ilya]

The option to show just one of your cards.

[DrPhysic]

Without reading the entire thread, I saw the number $100k thrown out. I don't think so.

The essence of succeeding is to bring in lots of fish. The other ideas that appeal to the fishermen are fine, but you need lots of fish. Do you have any idea what prime time TV advertizing costs, even on the cable channels? Sponsor a WPT event and put up lots and lots of 30 second TV spots. I don't think $100k would even come close to the advertizing budget. After that, the software developement and finance budgets might be peanuts by comparison.

That's not to say that somebody with the programming skills, online security skills, knowledge of the game, and the time and megabudget to spend could not do it. I think, however, that it would be a huge risk when the legality of online poker in the near term is not clear.

Doc

[The Yugoslavian]

It's not the advertising budget that you'd need....it's the PR and a miracle.

Seriously...

If one was to throw pure advertising $$ at PartyPoker et al. this late in the game....then you'd just be throwing almost all of it away. You need buzz and to differentiate yourself...in ways that advertising wouldn't be able to do.

This is why we need to offer scrippas for points....think of the PR you'd get!!!!

Yugoslav
Who is only 1/3 kidding...

[HoldingFolding]

The best way to think about this is too look at other industries and two spring to mind - Search Engines and Online Betting. The former was dominated by Yahoo! etc. the latter by major UK bookmakers and offshore based US sportsbooks. That domination was overcome by upstarts because of simple but innovative ideas - I'm thinking Google and Betfair.

Unfortunately, I don't think any of your ideas are innovative enough to displace the present industry leaders.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, I don't think any of your ideas are innovative enough to displace the present industry leaders.

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously haven't been reading my posts in this thread.

SCRIPPAS!

I may be able to generate other brilliant (in my opinion) ideas but this will be the last free one.

Yugoslav

[david050173]

google doesn't require other people to use it to be sucessfull. That is what makes it harder. Notice how ebay crushed amazons auctions. Can a new competitor break in and displace party? Sure. But it isn't going to be an underfunded startup

[elonkra]

This is how you have to do it, if you're going to succeed, in my humble opinion. You research every site on the net. The specifics of every single one. Figure out what's annoying about every sight, what's missing, and whatever little thing they have that makes them better than everyone else in that one small regard (it might be something small in their appearance or ease of game play), even though the rest of the site my suck all to hell. Know al of the sites so well that you can set up a site that literally has everything the others have, plus whatever unique ideas you have to offer. Start a complaints thread on the internet gambling forum and offer money for ideas. You're not going to have the cash to advertise like the big dogs, as others have mentioned. So you're going to have to do this somewhat slowly. But not too slowly, or it won't work. You're going to have to have some sort of grassroots online advertising campaign. Hire an advertising firm if you can afford it, and plan to unleash a crapload of catch banner ads, all at once, to get yourself kicked off. Research how other startups got their initial influx of players, if this sounds like it won't work (I know nothing about the effectiveness or cost of massive banner advertising, but there's gotta be something to it, and it's gotta be relatively cheap). Whatever the case, you're gonna have to figure out some grassroots Howard Dean-style way to advertise to make it work. And as others have pointed out, you'll have to truly be able to separate yourself from the others with ideas.

Anyway, those are my intoxicated thoughts on the subject.

[The Student]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, I don't think any of your ideas are innovative enough to displace the present industry leaders.

[/ QUOTE ]

You obviously haven't been reading my posts in this thread.

SCRIPPAS!

I may be able to generate other brilliant (in my opinion) ideas but this will be the last free one.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Since I tend to just give away my rakeback at the tables anyway, getting coupons for scrippas (would that be scrippa scrip?) would be very EV+ for me. Now if you can just advance me some of these coupons today, I'll gladly pay you back next Wednesday...

ts-

[Cheeseweasel]

[ QUOTE ]
I want to start my own poker site.

[/ QUOTE ]

This, by far, is the most intelligent comment that I've seen on the 2+2 forums.

You might also consider this:

link (http://www.start-your-casino.com/?r=google)

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, I don't think any of your ideas are innovative enough to displace the present industry leaders.

[/ QUOTE ]

You havent heard any of my ideas really. I dont need anyones advice on if my ideas are good enough. I already know I can blow away the compitition in every category important except...... the only one that matters...players (because this can only come with time)

The problem doesnt end with
better software (easy)
better support(easy, but costly)
better rake program (extremly easy)


The main question is.... do people have an attachment to party/skins for any other reason then the fish?


Here is one simple inovated idea that almost everyone can get behind..Optional bad word filter. If your old enough to gamble then your old enough to see the word [censored] typed out. If you want the filter on then turn it on. Call it trite, but people care about trite things. Its part of being a people.

For those of you that are saying that the common fish doesnt look at rake then I think you are wrong. Fish dont return to poker because they go broke. They blame it on bad luck, house rake, and cheaters. I dont really want to go into the dep thoughts of how reduced rake effects the econmy of the site, but its kinda like taxes. The main idea is, the money they save on rake they are just going to spend on poker anyways. This may sound cruel, but losing players are needed to fund a healthy econmy. They are the most important player at the table. These are the people that NEED to be catered to the most. Every poker site would flourish much better without sharks in there taking away fish money.