Austria / ultra loose games / hints for beginner

[RegBarclay]

Hi guys,

I am pretty new to poker and was hoping you could help me with some questions I have.

To give you a background: I read and understood 7csfap and have already ordered Theory of Poker. I live in Austria.

Do any of you play/ed in Austria and could give me some hints?
Due to a very limited BR and to give me some more practice I plan to start with EUR 3-6 seven card stud which is played 24/7 all over Vienna.
These games are more than loose and I rarely see players fold on third and/or even fifth street (have watched games in different joints). I doubt that any of the players in these games ever read a book on 7cs. It seems to me that the section on loose games in 7csfap does not apply here as it is almost impossible to get people to fold or even think about getting heads-up when I want to. How should I adjust my game to these conditions? Is there any further reading you can suggest?
If you do play in Autria and are willing to give me some up-to-date information, it would be greatly appreciated (as well as all other replies are).

Regards,
RegBarclay

[Andy B]

I've never been to Europe, but I've played some $3/6 stud in my day. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif My game has a $.50 ante, a $1 bring-in, and an obscene rake. I'm sure that your game has the obscene rake at the least, but are the ante and force the same?

I do think that the loose games section of 7CS4AP is applicable to games like you describe. OK, so waiting until fifth street to raise to knock people out won't work because people won't fold to that raise either. Fine. Don't raise for that reason. Just realize that you're going to have to show down the best hand to win. You are describing one of the most profitable games there is, but you do have to make some strategy adjustments to optimize your results.

This should be fairly obvious, but if no one is folding, you shouldn't try bluffing, as it won't work. By the same token, don't semi-bluff much either, as one of the elements of the semi-bluff is taken away. That said, however, you should still make some of the bets that would ordinarily be semi-bluffs because they now become value bets. To take my personal favorite example, if you're in a heads-up pot and you have a four-flush on fourth street, you should usually bet, because (1) your opponent might fold, and (2) you might make your flush and win. The combination of the two makes that a profitable bet. If you're against five tenacious opponents, you're going to have to make your flush to win, but you should still bet that flush draw for value. Even if you hit a blank on fifth street, it is still frequently profitable to bet that flush draw, as you will get there a significant percentage of the time, and your opponents will be kind enough to pay you off. If people fold to that fifth street bet, so much the better.

Flush draws are central to my loose stud game strategy (somewhat to the detriment of my stud/8 strategy, I'm afraid). When the game is loose, not only should you be more inclined to bet (and raise) with those draws, you should be more inclined to take cards off when you catch bad on fourth. Don't get carried away with this if your cards are small and/or dead, but your implied odds on that small fourth street bet are usually excellent.

Big pairs go down in value, but they are still playable. Just keep in mind that Aces-up is going to win against a large field just barely often enough to make it profitable. Queens-up probably won't cut it. If raising with your big pair on third street isn't going to thin the field, be more inclined to limp. Keep the pot small, and hope to thin the field with a later raise. If that raise won't thin the field, just call and hope you get lucky. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

The end of Andy's post makes an excellent point (one also made by Sklansky) about ultra-loose games. Since many players will not fold early, every hand becomes a draw, even high pairs. Split queens or even kings are often just a limp in these types of games -- why raise wih it if you are going to get 5 callers? That's why flush draws can be better starts than high pairs, because they are more likely to make a flush than a high pair is to make trips or a full house. On the other hand, a very live small two pair can go up in value if made early, especially if the game is fairly passive and you think you are against flush or straight draws. Now your full house draw may have sufficient odds to play.