moving up??

[kbkearns78]

I barely make a profit at 1-2 hold'em and stud, but I do have alongterm winning profit. I have read a lot of the top books seriously...theroy of pok, nl $ PL (ciaffione and cloutier), psyc of pok, caro's tells, 42 stud lessons, super syst, HP for adv ply, inside pooker mind, improve yr pok, helmuths book.....etc, I read poker well (articles etc.) I understand the game fairly well, math, psych, etc. I have the tight aggressive winning approacha dn the patience to win in the smal limits and I want to move up....I dont make much profit at low limt because it seems more like a crap shoot with all the hands at the river...should I move up and to what limits?? I feel like I can play at the higher limits but hav not tried yet? let me know what you think and if you have encountered the same thing...also any good book suggestions.....???? internet sites etc..

[mtdoak]

Step #1. Buy Small Stakes Hold'em by Skalansky and Miller
Step #2. Read it.

Low limit is NOT a crapshoot. Low limit is a gold mine, you just gotta know how to mine it. Read the book.

[Eurotrash]

[ QUOTE ]
I have read a lot of the top books seriously...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
helmuths book.....

[/ QUOTE ]


/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[ropey]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont make much profit at low limt because it seems more like a crap shoot with all the hands at the river...

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't sound like you understand poker as well as you say. These can be some of the most profitable games.

-ropey

[kbkearns78]

maybe not...do you play and win at these limits??

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe not...do you play and win at these limits??

[/ QUOTE ]
Low limits are the easiest games to beat. Buy SSHE and start playing 1/2 or 2/4. What are you currently playing?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont make much profit at low limt because it seems more like a crap shoot with all the hands at the river...should I move up and to what limits?? I feel like I can play at the higher limits but hav not tried yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you cannot beat the low limit games you will not be able to beat higher limit games with better players. Read Small Stakes Holdem by Miller.

[hicherbie]

i will say that low limit B&M holdem is pretty difficult to beat with the rake and toke. but i agree with the rest, you dont sound like you know what you are doing.

[kbkearns78]

actually where I play in tampa (i live in sarasota, fl) there is only 1-2 and 2-2, stud , holdem, omaha..

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
actually where I play in tampa (i live in sarasota, fl) there is only 1-2 and 2-2, stud , holdem, omaha..

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, thought you were playing on the internet. I've heard that live games are looser. Planning to start playing online?

[obsidian]

Very much so. Been winning from .5/1 through 3/6. .5/1 was easily the most profitable in terms of bets won (not $).

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
I barely make a profit at 1-2 hold'em and stud, but I do have alongterm winning profit. I have read a lot of the top books seriously...theroy of pok, nl $ PL (ciaffione and cloutier), psyc of pok, caro's tells, 42 stud lessons, super syst, HP for adv ply, inside pooker mind, improve yr pok, helmuths book.....etc, I read poker well (articles etc.) I understand the game fairly well, math, psych, etc. I have the tight aggressive winning approacha dn the patience to win in the smal limits and I want to move up....I dont make much profit at low limt because it seems more like a crap shoot with all the hands at the river...should I move up and to what limits?? I feel like I can play at the higher limits but hav not tried yet? let me know what you think and if you have encountered the same thing...also any good book suggestions.....???? internet sites etc..

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like someone needs OIC! (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2032700&page=2&view=e xpanded&sb=5&o=14)

[kbkearns78]

I definitely would be a lot further ahead if they didn't rake the small pots as heavily and of course the tipping and I also tip waitresses and stuff...I don't count that after every session. I think I am a solid winning player at this limit...I do know what I am doing.....(I did not take offense to your remarks..I actually appreciate it) I just feel like I should be making moroe profit....

[kbkearns78]

my computer died..so I am planning on it but....just got out of collecge and am working so when I get enough for a new comp I will...I like to get out into the card ooms though...do you think the interent is better on rakes and stuff??

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
my computer died..so I am planning on it but....just got out of collecge and am working so when I get enough for a new comp I will...I like to get out into the card ooms though...do you think the interent is better on rakes and stuff??

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't play live very often, but as said the competition when playing live is worse than online. But if you want to make money playing online is the best way, me thinks.

[kbkearns78]

what sites do you like or find are good??

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
what sites do you like or find are good??

[/ QUOTE ]
I mostly play at the Party skins. You're able to multitable and competition sucks. Pacific is the site where the worst players are, but you can only play one table at the time there.

[NickRegino]

1-2 is fairly good still you almost always know where people are at, if you move up too fast people might be too tricky for you and you will end up losing more than winning. 1-2 is still fairly straight foward and is easy to win at especially on the weekends when all the fish get on.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I barely make a profit at 1-2 hold'em and stud, but I do have alongterm winning profit. I have read a lot of the top books seriously...theroy of pok, nl $ PL (ciaffione and cloutier), psyc of pok, caro's tells, 42 stud lessons, super syst, HP for adv ply, inside pooker mind, improve yr pok, helmuths book.....etc, I read poker well (articles etc.) I understand the game fairly well, math, psych, etc. I have the tight aggressive winning approacha dn the patience to win in the smal limits and I want to move up....I dont make much profit at low limt because it seems more like a crap shoot with all the hands at the river...should I move up and to what limits?? I feel like I can play at the higher limits but hav not tried yet? let me know what you think and if you have encountered the same thing...also any good book suggestions.....???? internet sites etc..

[/ QUOTE ]

If you do not understand how the lower limits can be absurdly profitable, you do not understand poker well enough AT ALL. I was in your shoes once. I used to think low-limits was unbeatable because of all the suck-outs. Now I understand that they are profitable BECAUSE of the suck-outs. I haven't read any of the other responses, but I am sure that they are laced with sarcasm about how you should move immediately to 15/30 and blahblahblah. Take my advice: (1) read the Micro-Limit forum religiously (2) play 10,000 hands at $.5/1 (3) reevaluate after that. Good luck.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I am a solid winning player at this limit...I do know what I am doing

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you sound EXACTLY like I did a year ago. I thought I knew what I was doing. I came to find out that I didn't know jack. Realizing that you know nothing is the first step to enlightenment. I am no expert, but I have come a long way. You will too.

[kbkearns78]

being that I do enjoy psychology.....I realize my defensiveness in this quote could mean that I do not quite understand.....what has helped you become a better player?? anything I should try, read, etc...?

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
what has helped you become a better player?? anything I should try, read, etc...?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the Theory of Poker is essential, but you have already read that. In addition...

(1) Read Hold'em poker by Sklansky
(2) Read Small Stakes Hold'em by Miller
(3) Read about hands, post hands and comment on hands in the Micro-limit forum. The amount of info there is absurd. Do not be afraid to give advice and get ripped. Getting ripped is how one learns. Most posters here want to learn and help others learn.
(4) Get a computer and play lotsa $.5/1. I say this cuz (a) the players suck [generally] (b) you will learn a great deal and (c) if you don't do well, you're only out a couple hunderd bucks

[ptmusic]

As others have said, you can, and should, be a big winner at the lowest limits. And read SSHE.

However, I don't think you've answered exactly how well you've been doing. If you've been consistently winning an average of 2BB/100 or more (at 1,2: $4 profit for every 100 hands), INCLUDING all rakes and tips, then I do think you should move up.

Move up one level at a time, and keep studying.

And if you don't know what your average BB/100 is, then stay where you are and start keeping accurate records from this point forward.

Good luck!

-ptmusic

[kbkearns78]

appreciate it BOB

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont make much profit at low limt because it seems more like a crap shoot with all the hands at the river...should I move up and to what limits?? I feel like I can play at the higher limits but hav not tried yet? let me know what you think and if you have encountered the same thing...also any good book suggestions...

[/ QUOTE ]

I played 10-20 live yesterday with a guy who was one of the best players I've ever seen. There's not many of them with his skill level in that game. Alternating stealing, steamrolling, changing gears then shutting down. He wasn't a TAG or LAG. He played the best poker to win at that time. He said he played up to 100-200 live.

Half the table had the skill level of 2-4 players, which is maybe why he left the 15 game to sit in, and he had control over it for a long time.

You learn more from watching a guy like him play the players and the table than you could from any book. Books are great for general info and ideas, but they just can't accurately describe what you have to do to be a really good poker player.

So if you have the BR and think you play well enough to beat 1-2/2-4 games, go ahead and play 5-10 or 10-20. Many players are just as bad. You'll learn more from what you see than you could from any book.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
do you think the interent is better on rakes and stuff??

[/ QUOTE ]

Internet rakes are much lower, u play more hands/ hour, can multi-table and are just much more profitable (unless u're playing the highest casino limits). Internet games are also tighter and harder for the most part. With the rake and tipping, pocketing 2 bb/ hour even at the loosest tables is probably on par for a decent player.

[Erik W]

If you can't beat low limit or micor you can't beat anything else.

I had to clear a bonus in 1 day and played 0.5/1 just for fun and not have to change tables as I normally do and I was in a rush.

2000 hands and 6.7 BB/100

I don't know if it is sustainable and it might have been a good streak but I don't think I was running hot.
For example I lost 3 times with trips and a worse kicker.
People were just calling down with mediocre hands.