no, donkey, it's my big blind!

[billyjex]

Here are two big blind defense hands. It feels dirty to just call so much but can I raise anywhere in these hands? Can I fold?

Player in this hand is very loose, and in between passive and aggressive.


Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Villian in this hand is very aggressive, loves to open raise.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

[krishanleong]

I think you should raise at some point with both hands. If you run an equity simulation, I think you can prove that your ahead a good % of time. You just have to pick flop or turn.

The monocolored board makes me want to wait until the turn in hand 2.

Krishan

[imitation]

Raise hand 1 on the flop. This board very likely hit a stealer, find out where you are...

I dunno about hand 2. To be honest I would have liked 3-betting it preflop.

[stigmata]

Hand 1: I raise the flop. My default play for blind wars is to raise the flop when I catch a very vulnerable piece of it. Against most players I can find a fold if they start fighting back (a pair would seem more likely than a draw here).

Hand 2: I don't know!!!
Villain is going to play a high club or any pair very aggressively on this flop, so I'm not sure how much raising the flop achieves. I might raise the turn (calling down if he re-raises) and then bet a safe river.

[JrJordan]

Hand 1 I raise the flop. Pretty uncoordinated board, but you still want to charge him for his 6 outer. If he plays back at you then it's not too hard to find a fold.

Hand 2 I call the flop and raise a non club turn, then check through the river. If he has a Q, he'll be hard pressed to 3bet your turn raise given the flush board so you'll lose the same amount if behind, but win an extra BB if he's on the draw.

[Noodles]

[ QUOTE ]
It feels dirty to just call so much but can I raise anywhere in these hands? Can I fold?


[/ QUOTE ]
in hand 1 my default is to raise here, because you may eve nfold a better hand than yours (although doubtfaul) you can take a free card if you want on the turn ,
but since you called all the way i think the tough one is whether to fold or call on the river, most types will give up on a bluff on the river if they see you calling all the way,id almost be inclined to fold more tha calling this now

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 I raise the flop. Pretty uncoordinated board, but you still want to charge him for his 6 outer. If he plays back at you then it's not too hard to find a fold.

Hand 2 I call the flop and raise a non club turn, then check through the river. If he has a Q, he'll be hard pressed to 3bet your turn raise given the flush board so you'll lose the same amount if behind, but win an extra BB if he's on the draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I was going to suggest -- though, for hand #2, you want to be sure he's not so loopy as to 3-bet the turn with a draw. I'm not completely convinced that checking through on the river is correct if the guy just calls the turn bet at checks the river, he might pay off with an ace or a smaller pocket.

[climber]

I think these are pretty player dependant.

You need to know if the player minds 3-betting with nothing before you decided whether or not you are willing to start raising and getting a lot of money inthe pot with not much of a hand.

Hand 1: I raise the flop. You have bottom pair and would like to take the pot down now. If he calls then at least you charge him more for his draw.

Hand 2: Depends on the player. Some people seem to think its 4 to flush and automatically fold monotone boards--agains them I raise the flop. However, that player prob doesn't bet it into you. If they call your flop raise and a non-club card comes on the turn your turn raise has lost a lot of its credibility. Most of the time I will wait till the turn to raise this one.

[Girchuck]

Hand 1
You should really consider raising the flop. Your hand is best, but vulnerable. SB is drawing live. Charge SB. Also, teach SB that stealing from you will be expensive.

Hand 2
Raise the flop. Again, your hand is best and in need of protection.

[J.R.]

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty uncoordinated board, but you still want to charge him for his 6 outer. If he plays back at you then it's not too hard to find a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

for me it would be nearly inconceivable


[ QUOTE ]
I call the flop and raise a non club turn, then check through the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

checking thru blows here i think, he opened from the sb and u are talking Q? He could call your turn raise with any number of worse hands as from his perspective your turn raise could be any number of semi or outright bluffs, checking is real weak

[billyjex]

thanks for the advice. I felt I played these weakly. For some reason in hand 2 my plan was to raise a safe turn but I chickened out.

I did take both of these down. Villian had A7o in hand 1 and KJ (with the jack of clubs) in hand 2.

[JrJordan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pretty uncoordinated board, but you still want to charge him for his 6 outer. If he plays back at you then it's not too hard to find a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

for me it would be nearly inconceivable

[/ QUOTE ]

Giving up in a HU pot with bottom pair vs. a PF raiser who slows down when you raise the flop, then plays back at you on a later street (such as a checkraise on the turn) is inconceivable? Albeit it's not an easy fold, but calling this down every time screams leak to me.



[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I call the flop and raise a non club turn, then check through the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

checking thru blows here i think, he opened from the sb and u are talking Q? He could call your turn raise with any number of worse hands as from his perspective your turn raise could be any number of semi or outright bluffs, checking is real weak


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give you this one. I concede that there's probably a value bet at the end here.

[J.R.]

I agree, but your post says "plays back", not calls the flop and check-raises the turn or some other such line. The way your post reads u are folding to a flop 3-bet, that's what i was reacting to.

[Nate tha' Great]

This line shouldn't make you feel dirty.