Just checking, but I'm a moron, right?

[jeffraider]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2116)
UTG (t1840)
Button (t1790)
SB (t2254)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">UTG bets 1840 (All-In)2 folds</font>, Hero calls t1540

[jeffraider]

Oh and UTG had not got out of line or anything, and had pushed either once or twice previous to this hand.

[Bigwig]

Yeah, don't do that. His stack needs to be about 800 less to make this call on the bubble. Or maybe even 1000 less, depending on who you ask.

[ilya]

Yeah, I think that's a crappy call.

[Voltron87]

He needs half as many chips and to be pushing liberally to make this call.

[zaphod]

I think Forumbot could come up with 2 good answers to this one.

[jeffraider]

Okay thanks, I thought so. This was one of those insane calls where the hand just moves the mouse and clicks without any kind of thought. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[ilya]

I think the calling range here is 99+, AK, AQs, and perhaps AQo and AJs.

[flo]

Can you elaborate? Im not sure i fully understand the mechanics behind that. According to what calculation do i get my hand range here? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Thanks in advance!

[vinyard]

So, bubble play completely alludes me. I'll fess up (and happily take specific post recommendations via PM) to that and say that I don't understand having AJ and AQ in the range. Is it a pot odds issue am missing?

By my calcs the pot is at 2290, he's calling 1540 so I guess he's getting 60/40 from the pot. Just looking at the situation, I can see the pusher on A8+, 77+ and KQ? Is that an arbitrarily narrow range for his push?

I am really not trying to be a pain in the ass, just trying to understand better.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you elaborate? Im not sure i fully understand the mechanics behind that. According to what calculation do i get my hand range here? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Thanks in advance!

[/ QUOTE ]

fold, don't call, push.

the above 4 words tell you how to play the bubble. having provided more insight than the bible, i now depart.

citanul

[Voltron87]

Generally in bubble play you want to push way, way more than you want to call. I have no problem pushing KJ but I have a big problem just calling with it. When you just call you have no folding edge, when you push you will win chips when you win a showdown and when you are not called. Big difference. Getting 60 40 is not very good here.

You also have to think of these calls in terms of your folding equity. Calls that damage your folding equity, even if slightly +EV, are very bad.

Basically, stealing chips on the bubble is worth much more than if he has q10 or something, or you are slightly a favorite due to pot odds.

[Voltron87]

hey you just said my post in 1/4 as many words.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
By my calcs the pot is at 2290, he's calling 1540 so I guess he's getting 60/40 from the pot. Just looking at the situation, I can see the pusher on A8+, 77+ and KQ? Is that an arbitrarily narrow range for his push?

[/ QUOTE ]

damn, you posted this while i was writing my miraculously pithy reply to the op, so here goes:

yes, that's an incredibly too tight range to put the pusher on. not saying necessarilly that that makes AJ and AQ calls, because i don't have time to do the math, but the pusher should be pushing 22+ amongst other things you didn't include in your range.

citanul

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
Generally in bubble play you want to push way, way more than you want to call. I have no problem pushing KJ but I have a big problem just calling with it. When you just call you have no folding edge, when you push you will win chips when you win a showdown and when you are not called. Big difference. Getting 60 40 is not very good here.

You also have to think of these calls in terms of your folding equity. Calls that damage your folding equity, even if slightly +EV, are very bad.

Basically, stealing chips on the bubble is worth much more than if he has q10 or something, or you are slightly a favorite due to pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think vineyard wants to call with KJo, dude. Seeing as he wants to fold AQo and AJs.

[citanul]

heh, i was about to go back and add a line that said:

now that you know how to pwn the bubble, go make some money.

or something like that.

sorry i stole your thunder, but you did more explicating, which is good.

citanul

[Voltron87]

pwning the bubble is goot. though recently ive been getting in these weird situations where I have 4000ish chips with 4 palyers left thinking "mmmm... free bubble money" and then the bubble bursts two hands later leaving us with 3 players 100 200 blinds. I get really pissed off at that, because then people just start calling with crap since theres no bubble. just been pissing me off lately.

in short: I hate it when I am the big stack and the bubble ends early, which has been happening a lot lately.

[ilya]

You may not be folding AA preflop often enough.

[Voltron87]

i haven't been bursting the bubble, they have. or is your post a joke?

ive never pulled the aa preflop fold move, though ive never been in the position to do it against a shortstack either.

[ilya]

yeah, I'm just kidding. i was thinking of potc0mmitted's post.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
pwning the bubble is goot. though recently ive been getting in these weird situations where I have 4000ish chips with 4 palyers left thinking "mmmm... free bubble money" and then the bubble bursts two hands later leaving us with 3 players 100 200 blinds. I get really pissed off at that, because then people just start calling with crap since theres no bubble. just been pissing me off lately.

in short: I hate it when I am the big stack and the bubble ends early, which has been happening a lot lately.

[/ QUOTE ]

boohoo

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pwning the bubble is goot. though recently ive been getting in these weird situations where I have 4000ish chips with 4 palyers left thinking "mmmm... free bubble money" and then the bubble bursts two hands later leaving us with 3 players 100 200 blinds. I get really pissed off at that, because then people just start calling with crap since theres no bubble. just been pissing me off lately.

in short: I hate it when I am the big stack and the bubble ends early, which has been happening a lot lately.

[/ QUOTE ]

boohoo

[/ QUOTE ]

im going to bitch and moan about this stuff... and the forum will like it.