What would you rule?

[Bukem_]

2/5 NL cash game, most players have 1kish.

mp opens for 20, button calls. BB raises to 100.

MP says exactly "I'll give you some loose action" and mucks half a second later without making any other motions.

Button threw in the chips for the call the instant he heard loose action.

Then button argues that he wouldn't have called if he knew mp was mucking. For what its worth mp and button are friends.

Dealer immediately called the floor, should mp pay the 80? He has no cards.

[Zoltri]

Did the dealer throw the cards in the muck?
Either way, I would say no to paying the $80. Besides, the guy on the button should have been watching.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
2/5 NL cash game, most players have 1kish.

mp opens for 20, button calls. BB raises to 100.

MP says exactly "I'll give you some loose action" and mucks half a second later without making any other motions.

Button threw in the chips for the call the instant he heard loose action.

Then button argues that he wouldn't have called if he knew mp was mucking. For what its worth mp and button are friends.

Dealer immediately called the floor, should mp pay the 80? He has no cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that the correct call is that MP did not directly say "I call," so he owes no money.

Button acted out of turn. The floor would likely rule that he had not acted legitimately and therefore could fold. However, if the floor happens to rule otherwise, it's the button's own damn fault and he has no room to complain.

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
should mp pay the 80?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. Verbal declarations of action are binding...but he didn't say "call" or "raise" so I think this is perfectly fine. If he was blatantly screwing up the action it is a dick move... but I don't think it violates any rules.

[Chipr777]

I disagree. If his saying "I'll give you some loose action", forced any action behind than the $80 goes in the pot. Saying I'll give you loose action in this situation is a clear intent to call. Any action, complete or not, that has action behind is binding. The magic word doesn't have to be "I call", if intent is there.

[Jeebus]

how can "Ill give you some loose action" be considered binding. That is too ambiguous of a phrase. He could, in fact, have been talking about sending the guys in the way of his girlfriend, you never know.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
how can "Ill give you some loose action" be considered binding. That is too ambiguous of a phrase. He could, in fact, have been talking about sending the guys in the way of his girlfriend, you never know.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just had a nice chuckle, good one.

[Lottery Larry]

No, he doesn't have to call. The button's action was based on the BB bet, so he's committed to it.

I'd be more worried about the friends connection.

[Chipr777]

Besides this situation have you ever heard anyone involved in a hand say "I'll give you some loose action", and muck? I didn't think so. There was obvious intent to call and before he mucked there was a call behind. My feeling are his intetion was to have the 3rd party behind him call. For this reason I make the action stand. If there's not penalties for obvious angles there's no protection for honest players. The integrity of the game has to be protected.

[youtalkfunny]

I'm not making MP put in $80.

And I'm not giving the button a refund.

[The Dude]

If the button acted out of turn by calling before MP had mucked his cards, then he should not be obligated to call the reraise. If he called after MP mucked (even if he didn't realize MP had mucked) then he should be required to call. Either way, if I were the BB I would not have forced his action if I thought it was an honest misunderstanding.

[Barry]

[ QUOTE ]
If there's not penalties for obvious angles there's no protection for honest players. The integrity of the game has to be protected.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean the honest, but unaware?

Don't expect the rules to protect anyone from angle shots. "Call", "Fold" or "Raise" are the magic words, nothing else. You need to protect yourself from them.

And for heavens sake, MP mucked "1/2 second later" and the button got his chips in already. If he had waited he wouldn't be in that position.

MP didn't call, but regarding the buttons call, it is a little more complicated. Some rooms have a "action out of turn is no action" rule, which might help out the button. Even if there is, there could be a debate on whether his action was out of turn. Absent that type of rule the call would stand.

[Bukem_]

Floor ruled that MP's words indicated a call, and he had to pay up, even though he had no cards.

No way was MP trying to angle shoot, his attempted "humor"(or whatever else to call it) was obviously stupid, and he realized it after he found himself in this dilemna.

I didn't think he should have been forced to pay, I understood him as obviously joking, and he never officially said or did anything I would consider binding.

This floor also upheld the 3rd man walking rule for the same guy in question when he wanted to get dinner after playing for 24 hours straight. But he somehow allowed a player to play exactly 3 hands in the course of 3 hours up to this point. And the other guy had been gone for over 45 minutes already. But he would only pick up the guy who had been there for 24 hours straight.
I was pretty dumbfounded by floor's decision on both occasions.

[ToledoTommy]

[ QUOTE ]
Floor ruled that MP's words indicated a call, and he had to pay up, even though he had no cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

My first reaction after reading the post was that he's made an oral commitment to call, I would say that is the right move.

[Chipr777]

Seems like we're the only two to agree with the floor here.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like we're the only two to agree with the floor here

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I will have to agree with the floor here, but I really hate to speculate about a ruling I might make because you never know what info is being excluded.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
MP says exactly "I'll give you some loose action" and mucks half a second later without making any other motions.

[/ QUOTE ]
So what would happen if half a second later MP1 had pushed all-in instead of mucking? Would that be a string raise because he verbally "called"?

[AnyTwoCanLose]

You are allowed to engage in table talk while in a hand.

Just because he said something that reasonably made a player believe that he was about to do something doesn't mean he is obligated to do it.

"Loose action" is vague. Could have meant raise... call...

the button can't prematurely act and then whine.

Maybe next time he'll wait the half second.

[Trainwreck]

LOL! No, the dope who called thinking other guy had, is stupid here for not really paying attention, trash talk (joking) folds are not that uncommon.

No chips went in and cards got mucked, htf do u miss that?

Cocktail waitresses distracted him maybe or was it the lady with the HH's in the 3 seat?
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Floor shouldn't even get consulted on this, but if pressed, definitely get the floor so it can be clearly explained...

It's laughable though.

>TW<