Why the hell give good advice?

[stanzee]

When we play poker, we play to win, we play to take money off our oppenent, and we'd all ruthlessly take our oppenents entire bankroll if we could.

So why, oh why give advice on how to play SNG's here. This can only serve to make your opponents better, giving everyone tougher games. Does it give you a warm fuzzy feeling giving advice, or do you do it to show your superiority thus boosting your ego. I know it sounds selfish but poker is a selfish mans game.

[Freudian]

For the simple reason that if we give others good advice others give us good advice. It actually helps you also.

Also it is a social aspect of a non-social activity.

[Big Limpin']

why the hell volunteer to do anything?

Solicitor: "Would you like to volunteer to help us build a playground at the home for mentally challenged 1-armed orphans?"

Stanzee: "Hells yes! A playground, hey? Sure, count me in. I love to play on the teeter-totters"

Solicitor: "No, actually, its just for the kids. You wont be allowed to play in it"

Stanzee: "Man [censored] that, you think im stupid? WHat would i get out of that deal"

Solicitor: " OKay, thanks for your time sir"

Stanzee: "Get bent, mooch"

[Degen]

its a trade off-give to receive

and it also reinforces the fundamentals by explaining them over and over and over and over


Andre
-who thinks that the majority of the players that frequent party SNG's don't even know this forum exists.

[Phoenix1010]

Perhaps giving something back? A lot of us would not be nearly as good at poker as we are if we hadn't stumbled across 2+2 and learned from the great players here. I sometimes get a good feeling from paying it forward.

Also, some of the discussions that come along once in a while provide learning experiences for players of all levels. Keeping the community going benefits ourselves as much as it does other players.

[sabre170]

We don't all agree on the best advice. The forum is a way to get other points of view.

Some may try to use it as a way to influence others to play poorly, or may give facetious advice which is taken seriously.

Therefore, use your own judgement.

Sabre170

[prepotency]

Everyone here propogates false advice stanzee - have your ISP block the URL and be on your way.

[Meatmaw]

[ QUOTE ]
This can only serve to make your opponents better, giving everyone tougher games.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Some feel that sharing and explaining knowledge builds their own familiarity with the principles behind their knowledge.
Result: +ev

2) Unless someone decides he is the utmost end-all genius in a discipline, sometimes his sharing of knowledge leads to discussion, debate, and revision of views for the better.
Result: +ev.

3) Being a respected member on this forum can get you the odd connection.
Result: +ev.

4) Yes, it is fuzzy, and besides, how much do you really think you lose sharing knowledge with alllllll the posters on this forum (even if they read your post). $1?
Answer: ($1.24)

Poker is not only about money. Maybe to the super intellectual players who have mastered it with bored indifference or to the glitz-n-glamour drawn tourist player, it's just a game, but for myself, and I would think others, it has given me perspective on a lot of non-poker related things.

Or maybe I'm just kooky. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[The Yugoslavian]

The pursuit of pure perfection.

Yugoslav

[gumpzilla]

Hmmm. So you advise that we stop giving good advice, as it will hurt our bottom line? Sounds like good advice to me.

Excuse me while my head explodes.

[Benholio]

Well, if the advice here reached (and was understood by )everyone who played in every SNG, it would indeed be bad news.

In reality, what happens here is some small percentage of the sng playing population (1%? 2%?) share knowledge with each other and get better together. This knowledge is used to beat the people who don't participate here, which is the vast majority.

Now, in the higher buy-in games, where you routinely find several solid players in the same game, I'm sure there is plenty of strategy that ISN'T discussed here for that reason.

[microbet]

Warm fuzzy

socialization

exposing your advice to criticism is educational

people that want to learn and are able to understand will find out anyway [TOP, HOH, TPAP, etc.]

the one's who haven't found out, but are capable or interested are often not playing in the same games as those giving advice.

"pursuit of perfection"

[raptor517]

most people that play poker dont care about taking the time to learn the game. they think they can learn it by playing, and that they are already better than everyone and dont need help. the number of people that actually learn and benefit from this site is VERY small in relation to the number of players online.

also, posting hand histories nad such can get constructive criticism, which can help even the best of player's games.

holla

[Voltron87]

By discussing hands on 2+2 you will understand the game better and people who are better at poker than you will tell you when you are wrong. The more you post and contribute, the more likely the better players are to take your hand posts seriously.

I've found just by reading even simple bubble hand posts and thinking through situations while not in an SNG I have improved my play and can better handle those situations when they come up in my games. Even thinking about the simpler situations, where you know what to do, more deeply will help you understand the whole game better.

I am 10 times the player I was when I registered for this site and started posting, half because people called me an idiot a bunch of times and I saw how I was wrong, and half because I began reading more posts and thinking about what to do more deeply, which advanced my understanding of SNG poker.

[bobman0330]

The real question is why you're such a big jerk...

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
The real question is why you're such a big jerk...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey...you don't know how big he is!

[Blarg]

Poker advice is probably more likely to be fish food than a threat to the profit or livelihood of serious players. It likely convinces more people to play longer who are ultimately losing players than actually increases the number of long-term winners. Learning a little poker is easy; learning enough is hard.

Poker advice is often hard to apply, and even when you do apply it correctly, most people vastly underestimate anything remotely related to "sample size." That leads many of them, probably most of them at some time or other, to get flustered or confused, or go on tilt or outright quit because of trying to adjust their play and their thinking to truly random short-term results.

Really learning poker inside-out and putting poker knowledge properly to work is something probably even the majority of poker players who consider theselves somewhat serious have problems with. The learning curve is often quite a long one, as most people take years to refine whatever skill level or poker talent they have, be it large or small. And some people never really wind up being able to integrate good ideas into their play at all.

And we're only talking about the ones who are actually TRYING to. How many craps, bingo, roulette, lottery, horse racing, sports betting, blackjack players, and the like are actually really interested in strategic concepts that even come close to mattering? If they were, almost none of them would be playing; instead they are helping to build the biggest hotels in the world in Las Vegas. Poker players are no different; the majority of them are not necessarily a special breed. They play for fun. With perhaps a modicum more thought than they would give to some other activities, but not much. The majority of poker players don't even try to study the game seriously.

There's little threat that poker advice is going to result in an immediate boost to the difficulty of the game. The threat potential of poker advice is more like a bullet fired into space. Will it hit something? Maybe, who knows. In the grand scheme of things, it won't cause much damage by the time it gets anywhere, and we could all be dead by the time we found out.

In the meantime, reading and trying to post poker advice can help a select few and at least entertain some number more. It's worth doing, and helps keep the game alive and intriguing for new recruits of all skill levels, which every game needs plenty of. It becomes a pretty miserable pond when all the alligators have left to eat is each other.

[Pokerscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker advice is probably more likely to be fish food than a threat to the profit or livelihood of serious players. It likely convinces more people to play longer who are ultimately losing players than actually increases the number of long-term winners.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is right on the money.

It is like all the people that play blackjack because you can theoretically 'beat the house'. 99 out of 100 have no where near the skill to do anything other than play close to breakeven, but the possibility and reading a few books gets them to the casino.

Reading a few threads gets people excited and playing. Very few are going to have the patience to learn enough to do more than contribute to the good players (and the house of course). Admittedly, it is easier to beat lower limit poker than it is to beat blackjack, but I think that just contributes to the poker 'wave'.

Pokerscott

[ilya]

'Cos one of the best ways to find out if your advice is any good is to come here and start giving it.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
When we play poker, we play to win, we play to take money off our oppenent, and we'd all ruthlessly take our oppenents entire bankroll if we could.

So why, oh why give advice on how to play SNG's here. This can only serve to make your opponents better, giving everyone tougher games. Does it give you a warm fuzzy feeling giving advice, or do you do it to show your superiority thus boosting your ego. I know it sounds selfish but poker is a selfish mans game.

[/ QUOTE ]


you are so far off with this....all of the threads that i have taken the most from were ones that i have actively participated in. this is a discussion board in which we all learn from each other. there is an old saying that has served me well, you get out what you put in.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
most people that play poker dont care about taking the time to learn the game. they think they can learn it by playing, and that they are already better than everyone and dont need help. the number of people that actually learn and benefit from this site is VERY small in relation to the number of players online.

also, posting hand histories nad such can get constructive criticism, which can help even the best of player's games.

holla

[/ QUOTE ]

raptor makes an excellent point. i have heard of howard lederer and gus hansen (who are supposedly good friends as well as workout partners) having terrible workout sessions due to the fact that they talk about poker too much instead of hitting the weights. you see, in order to be the best you must constantly work on your trade. a great example can be seen in the golf world in which the two people that you are most likely to see at the range for hours on end are the number 1 and 2 players in the world (tiger and vijay for those of you who dont follow).

[DrPhysic]

Because 2+2 1 Table Tournament Forum is a very small society of people who have an interest in improving their poker game. If you read what is posted here, and contribute to it, you will find there are poker minds that intuitively or analytically understand answers for which you have not yet thought up the questions. Your contribution of what you think is good advice may (will) get corrected now and then by people who have more insight or more experience. Your contribution of good advice will also help others who have not yet achieved the level of understanding that you have. Clearly a two way street.

The small percentage of the some 9000 members of 2+2 who happen to frequent this forum is a relatively small number of players even on 2+2, much less compared to the 71798 players currently on Party or the 41209 players currently on Stars (really, I looked), and the number currently on the 22 other poker sites. The odds of giving away your "patented secret formula" on this site to someone who will use it to take your money on a poker site sometime this week or month is about nil. Especially since the members of this forum play all the SNG buyin levels from $5, to $1000 and up.

In general, as with anything else, you get out of the forum about what you put in.

Try it, you might learn something.

Doc /images/graemlins/cool.gif