Richter
04-26-2005, 04:07 PM
Just thought this was interesting because I have had this happen to me.
I posted the content below because I didn't have a direct link to this specific days blog.
This was written by Paul Phillips at http://extempore.livejournal.com/
Apr. 25th, 2005 @ 01:06 pm
WORST RULE EVER
At the bellagio, well into the $5K tournament, the action got to me in mid-position at the same time I was tipping the cocktail waitress. I was in the one seat, adjacent to the dealer. The blinds were 400-800. I threw 2200 (two 1K chips and two 100 chips) forward, unambiguously, with one motion. When the bet landed the dealer quickly pushed back the rearmost 1K chip and said "that doesn't play, the bet is 1200."
Flabbergasted and mystified, I insisted on a ruling, and when I heard that ruling I appealed to jack mcclelland, who backed up the ruling. The new rule at the bellagio is this: regardless of anything else, only the chips that cross the line play. Under duress I got him to admit that if the chip was touching the line, it would play too (but you can be sure that will be a floorperson-by-floorperson ruling adventure.) Was my chip touching the line? I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THE [censored] DEALER HAD ALREADY PUSHED IT BACK.
Obviously the bet was not 1200 because that's not a legal bet. After more debate it was concluded that there is a half-bet rule and that I had to make the minimum raise, up to 1600.
In my ten years of playing casino poker this is by far the stupidest rule I've ever seen. It is the ultimate in trying to fix something that was not broken, and in doing so creating what erik seidel called "an angle shooter's paradise." It is enforced more selectively than any rule I've ever seen; 90% of the time nobody will say anything, but if you're lucky enough to be in the one or ten seat and have a dealer who thinks it's part of his job to interfere with the betting, you can get burned.
When the action comes to you, if you like you can push all your chips forward to just short of the line, then sit back in your chair and look like you're all-in. This is now completely legal! If the sucker says "I call" then just say "Wait, I haven't acted yet." The long-standing, sensible, useful, effective "forward motion" rule has been obviated by the "chips crossing the line" rule.
If you think about it for a while there are not only a ton of angles open but a truckload of corner cases for which you cannot predict what ruling you'll get. Stop coming up with new rules that are guaranteed to be selectively and inconsistently enforced! THEY ARE BAD.
The next dealer to try to touch my chips in this situation will lose his hand. If they're going to enforce this certifiably insane rule they can at least have the decency not to tamper with the chain of evidence.
At the next event I played (the PPT) I again complained about this to jack and he said with a straight face that I'm the ONLY ONE who has complained. I'd shopped it around a few tables the last couple days and found without surprise that it was universally hated, so I fear there's some gooey substance interfering with his hearing. I know I wasn't displaying my most persuasive manner because the manifest madness of the rule had me quite aggravated, but come on. This one is EASY.
I posted the content below because I didn't have a direct link to this specific days blog.
This was written by Paul Phillips at http://extempore.livejournal.com/
Apr. 25th, 2005 @ 01:06 pm
WORST RULE EVER
At the bellagio, well into the $5K tournament, the action got to me in mid-position at the same time I was tipping the cocktail waitress. I was in the one seat, adjacent to the dealer. The blinds were 400-800. I threw 2200 (two 1K chips and two 100 chips) forward, unambiguously, with one motion. When the bet landed the dealer quickly pushed back the rearmost 1K chip and said "that doesn't play, the bet is 1200."
Flabbergasted and mystified, I insisted on a ruling, and when I heard that ruling I appealed to jack mcclelland, who backed up the ruling. The new rule at the bellagio is this: regardless of anything else, only the chips that cross the line play. Under duress I got him to admit that if the chip was touching the line, it would play too (but you can be sure that will be a floorperson-by-floorperson ruling adventure.) Was my chip touching the line? I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THE [censored] DEALER HAD ALREADY PUSHED IT BACK.
Obviously the bet was not 1200 because that's not a legal bet. After more debate it was concluded that there is a half-bet rule and that I had to make the minimum raise, up to 1600.
In my ten years of playing casino poker this is by far the stupidest rule I've ever seen. It is the ultimate in trying to fix something that was not broken, and in doing so creating what erik seidel called "an angle shooter's paradise." It is enforced more selectively than any rule I've ever seen; 90% of the time nobody will say anything, but if you're lucky enough to be in the one or ten seat and have a dealer who thinks it's part of his job to interfere with the betting, you can get burned.
When the action comes to you, if you like you can push all your chips forward to just short of the line, then sit back in your chair and look like you're all-in. This is now completely legal! If the sucker says "I call" then just say "Wait, I haven't acted yet." The long-standing, sensible, useful, effective "forward motion" rule has been obviated by the "chips crossing the line" rule.
If you think about it for a while there are not only a ton of angles open but a truckload of corner cases for which you cannot predict what ruling you'll get. Stop coming up with new rules that are guaranteed to be selectively and inconsistently enforced! THEY ARE BAD.
The next dealer to try to touch my chips in this situation will lose his hand. If they're going to enforce this certifiably insane rule they can at least have the decency not to tamper with the chain of evidence.
At the next event I played (the PPT) I again complained about this to jack and he said with a straight face that I'm the ONLY ONE who has complained. I'd shopped it around a few tables the last couple days and found without surprise that it was universally hated, so I fear there's some gooey substance interfering with his hearing. I know I wasn't displaying my most persuasive manner because the manifest madness of the rule had me quite aggravated, but come on. This one is EASY.