This is what happened at ACR

I know these two guys, and there is only two of them J.B=Butrelli B.B=Odds/Oddstipset. P.E=Taxi-driver has nothing to do with this; he just started the post "a simple question" (asking if a site could just take 5.5k...) after he heard what had happened to his two freinds. When people asked excactly what happened, Taxi answered as if he was Oddstipset. (pretty stupid of him doing that, makes everything very confusing). Torstyn could have found out this if he asked them to fax in their passports etc.

Odds and Butrelli have gone over the line and should be punished, but taking all their money is definetely going far over the line.
They have done 4 things:
1: One has lent the other his account.
How many players out there have done that??
"Since your going to that party tonight, can I borrow your account for a couple of hours?"

2: Transfered money h2h.
If two players are sitting in a casino playing poker, one goes broke and asked his freind next to him if he can borrow some of his chips, is that illegal? 'Cause that is the best comparison, there has been no money laundering, CC fraud I GAURANTEE! None of these guys have ever stolen a candy bar in their lives..

3: Oddstipset has opened two accounts.
Reason: He was going to be a prop for ACR, had trouble with his e-mail, told Bob who was in charge at ACR then, and was told it was ok to open a new account. He does NOT have 8 accounts!! That is a total lie.

4. Played at the same table a dozen times, where there has been no cheating, as Torstyn could check up in hand history.

I know many people will not beleive that what I wrote here is true, but it is.
Just pretend that my story is totally true (which it is), is it then right for ACR to take their 5.5k??

90% OF THE 5.5K WAS WON H2H!!

[Taxidriver]

[Am Alert]

It's getting very tiring reading the three headed monster continue to justify this behavior.

Even after 2000 posts you post this </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Odds and Butrelli have gone over the line and should be punished

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet you then ramble on and on, without suggesting any punishment. Think banishment is a punishment? They got what they deserved, and like I already posted, I hope and pray CRIS shares their name and particulars with the other sites.

[jamesburke]

Ok i'm starting to crack here:

You claim they have done 4 things here:
1. The loan= if you are chip dumping to another player it is illegal and ur account will be closed
2. Tranfering at h2h = this is also chip dumping and leds to your account closing.
3. 2 accounts = I doubt that Bob allowed that unless your other account was broken, also Bob no longer works there as far as I know
4. same table= Listen if your at the same table with someone from the same town, it makes it look even more suspicious.

In closing I got an email from odds today, i've talked to him before, I understand that he's upset in the situation but there is nothing that he or anyone says that can change what the evidence has. I agree with the poster before who said that he should get his orignal deposit back, other than that it's out of all our hands.

Ken

[crazy canuck]

Thank you for clarifying this side of the story. I don't know why people keep posting "punish the cheats" when they do not realize there wasn't any cheating involved. ACR's reasoning was that they broke the rules and should be punished.

Am alert: What if they had 50k, should they take all their money then? Would like to know before I let my 6-year old cousin borrow my account for a few rounds when visitng me..

[Am Alert]

Maybe you should consult your cousin on the difference between right and wrong.

[programmer]

Thanks Royalen, for clearing up.

Torstyn's initial post on this issue had caused all the misconception that taxi is involved in this matter.

Now I can see that Torstyn had over reacted to this matter. may be Taxidriver's "A simple question" post could have caused it.

I just add the url below to throw more light on to this particular matter. /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

Torstyn's initial post (http://www.twoplustwo.com/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=inet&amp;Number=163403&amp;pag e=18&amp;view=expanded&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=)

I used to play ACR for quite a long time including propping there.ACR customer service has been top notch.I do remember playing all the players in question.In fact my last bout with ACR I got beat by one of those names in question.First it wouldn't suprise me if royalen is one of the players.I really respect your headsup play-u play real good.And when I lost the last time I played there the guys play was very similar to yours now that I think about it.When I have played you at paradise,pokerstars or ACR in no way did I think I was cheated.However my problem comes with ACR.In any site I play -I trust the site has good enough security measures to protect its' players from cheating.In this case obviously ACR has caught something wrong here.They have confiscated 5K and are doing nothing with it.I am positive that some of that money is mine.I really dont think the way they colluded matters here.If they had multiple accounts and scamed promo bucks then I was beat with an account that had dirty money and should not have been at my tables to begin with.Therefore if they are going to take the money from theses accounts -every penny should be given back to the players it was won from.Now this is not sour grapes.When I play I can be beat headsup-and I was against these players so that is why I had no choice but to quit ACR and find an easier game.But if I was cheated by accounts that should not have existed to begin with -i want my money back.Otherewise the players in question should get their money.ACR definately should not be keeping it.

BishopNelson

The key thing about ACR is that they have alot of free $ promo's. But the GIMMICK is the "promobucks" require you to play rake hands live to "clear" the money for cashout.

If two players gather lots of promo bucks and then play together alone on a table for hours effectively transfering all the promobucks to ONE of them, while playing hands to clear that accounts hand# requirement then they would be violating the spirit of ACR's free money promotion activities.

The point of the promobucks promotion is to generate player activity, attract players to the site and get ACR competitive with the major sites. We who play there alot know and understand what the deal is, and anyone circumventing the system needs to be dealt with. ACR is giving away free$ in promotion of thier business, and they have all the right to shut down anyone trying to take advantage of thier promotion unfairly.

I personally appreciate all the work ACR is doing in trying to bring a legit sight to the market place, and support thier efforts.

[J_V]

I hope they don't lose all their money. Thanks for clarifying the story.

[J_V]

I too have played with Royalen...he is very good, doesn't make him a cheat. Your baseless accusations are seedy.

You morons miss the point. Yes, let's say they had 100K. Should they take the whole thing????????????????????????????????????????????? If you think it was right for them to take the whole 5.5 k, which I'm sure didn't come exclusively from cheating (assuming there was cheating), then you have to say it is right for them to take 100K. And that is bullshit if you ask me. I won't play on this site knowing that they do this. Very very dishonest. MUCH more alarming to me than a couple of boneheads that share an account a couple times.

[n1stunnor]

If you got caught selling $1,000 worth of smack to an undercover agent would they just take the $1,000 and the smack that you sold or would they take all the cash you had and all the smack you had?

[MS Sunshine]

"Like I have said many times these accounts whilst not having committed collusion on ACR, they have very clearly broken many rules in regards to playing at ACR with the very clear INTENT to break even more (collusion for example).

Here they broke rules.

"If you got caught selling $1,000 worth of smack to an undercover agent would they just take the $1,000 and the smack that you sold or would they take all the cash you had and all the smack you had? "

Here someone may have broken a law, but will be given due process before ANYTHING is taken away for good. In the case of ACR, they have decided to take everything, above what they claimed they lost. Wait, what did ACR claim they lost?

MS Sunshine

[beernutz]

Answers 1. I've never done this actually. What I want to know, however, is why one of them 'loaned' the other one an account WHEN THEY BOTH ALREADY HAD ACR ACCOUNTS? In fact, it appears at least one of them had numerous accounts.

2. Can't comment other than this h2h transfer is apparently the preferred method of perpetuating cc fraud on gambling sites according to what I've read on rec.gambling.poker.
Draw your own conclusions here I suppose.

3. According to Torstyn Cole's post here it appears that Oddstipset opened at least 10 acr accounts. I'd still like to know what the motivation for this was.

4. I don't know about this. On the one hand many people have questioned how acr could not have noticed these multiple accounts apparently belonging to the same individual before they did and on the other you're claiming they are sophisticated enough to detect collusion between two accounts on the same table.

$5,500 x .9 = $4,950. This does not even jive with what the principals have posted about how much they 'earned' at acr.

I'd be happy to let this topic die as well if either a. someone answers the questions I posted in the thread 'Questions for the apologists and principals' or b. everyone else stops posting on the subject.

Why they dumped chips in h2h game? Taxidriver explained this in one of his posts. Odds let taxi to play from his account (or the other way around). Taxi won money while playing from odds account. Then taxi opened his own account and odds returned the funds to him playing h2h. No money laundering, no CC or any other fraud that I can see. Perhaps breaking the site rules.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

Why they dumped chips in h2h game? Taxidriver explained this in one of his posts. Odds let taxi to play from his account (or the other way around). Taxi won money while playing from odds account. Then taxi opened his own account and odds returned the funds to him playing h2h. No money laundering, no CC or any other fraud that I can see. Perhaps breaking the site rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why didn't they handle the transfer using the cashier? Usually funds are transferred via the cashier. It also costs less, when you don't have to pay the rake...

[Taxidriver]

They dont do transfer between accounts on Acr so...