is KK more profitable than AA?

[Roswell]

I remember reading a while back that some posters were more profitable with KK than AA. This is true for me so far. What are the possible explanations?

[Petro]

Small sample size. That's about it.

[ggbman]

variance, dumb luck, etc... Make this claim after playing each hand 500 times.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

You live in bizzaro world where kings are aces and aces are kings. Other than that your sample size is too small.

[Roswell]

After how many hands do you expect individual hand values to converge?

[imported_CaseClosed326]

I don't know. Does it matter? Because it really doe not matter.

Thead over.

[Petro]

I don't think my most profitable hands fell into the correct order (AA, KK, QQ , JJ) until about 20k hands.

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
I remember reading a while back that some posters were more profitable with KK than AA. This is true for me so far. What are the possible explanations?

[/ QUOTE ]

In all honesty - it could be a small sample size, it could also be a leak for you with how you play AA.

Are you holding onto AA for 3 bets when there is a 3-straight 2-flush on the board and none of it helps you?

what about a paired board with lots of action?

People find it easier to get rid of KK than AA.

Just something to think about.

[sy_or_bust]

Obviously AA > KK. But in this case it should be especially clear, since AA wins significantly more than any other holding, since it dominates all one pair hands.

For me:

AA (113) 2.9 BB/100
KK (102) 1.9 BB/100

[Stork]

KK looks way cooler.

[tolbiny]

sexist

[Surfbullet]

Surf

[PassiveCaller]

Just how the cookie crumbles mostly... There's a lot of variance in single hand values.

[Cobra1968]

There is no doubt AA is more profitable than KK. Check out the EV stats from PokerRoom.com if you don't beleive me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Holdem EV stats quick guide, 10 players

Position
Cards SB BB 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 D

AA 2.72 2.81 2.48 2.53 2.73 2.76 2.79 2.77 2.89 2.96
KK 1.90 1.73 1.72 1.70 1.59 1.90 2.01 1.97 1.94 2.09

[Mr. Graff]

I'm more of a QQ guy. Make the flop KKQ and I'm happy. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[imported_azalin]

I have better winrate with 52s (dealt 26 times),J9s,K9 than with KK (dealt 39 times). I know it says nothing but whenever i hold KK lately you can imagine what i am thinking..

[tac252]

My friend just yesterday made the same point. However, after looking at replaying some of his hands on pokertracker we determined that he is just overvaluing his AA whenever he is beat. He almost never folds it, even when there is heavy action with a pair on board with multiple opponents. Sometimes its clear he's up against a straight or flush (again with multiple opponents putting raise and reraise) and he just can't let it go.

I guess he doesn't have the same problem with KK because it is easier for him to tell when he is beat.

Your problem could be just plain variance, but it could also be that you too are overvaluing you aces (I think we all have gone through a phase like this. I know I did).

Tom

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
KK looks way cooler.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be, but with KK you're put through the ordeal of the classic chant of "pleasenoaceonthefloppleasenoaceonthefloppleaenoace ontheflopOHTHANKGODNOACE!orOHSHITTHERESANACEIMFUCK EDILLBETBUTISHOULDPROBABLYJUSTCHECKFOLD"

[MrFeelNothin]

my stats in my current database:
KK- 169 times, 79.29 win% 2.33BB/hand
AA- 158 times, 80.38 win%, 2.06BB/hand

I dont have access to any more hands on this computer, but for me it has always been this way- KK wins bigger pots for me than AA. The only possible explanation I could come up with is that people overplay their Ax hands in 6max games, so you get more action with KK, at least preflop.

Whoever said its probably due to not being able to let go of AA is probably closer to correct though, I will check some of my AA hands and see.

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm more of a QQ guy. Make the flop KKQ and I'm happy. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd rather have QKQ, but whatever turns you on is your business.

[imported_CaseClosed326]

[ QUOTE ]
That may be, but with KK you're put through the ordeal of the classic chant of "pleasenoaceonthefloppleasenoaceonthefloppleaenoace ontheflopOHTHANKGODNOACE!orOHSHITTHERESANACEIMFUCK EDILLBETBUTISHOULDPROBABLYJUSTCHECKFOLD"

[/ QUOTE ]

Fantastic.

[Stork]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
KK looks way cooler.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be, but with KK you're put through the ordeal of the classic chant of "pleasenoaceonthefloppleasenoaceonthefloppleaenoace ontheflopOHTHANKGODNOACE!orOHSHITTHERESANACEIMFUCK EDILLBETBUTISHOULDPROBABLYJUSTCHECKFOLD"

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, I'm awesome enough that every time an ace flops, a king flops also so I get plenty of action from AK.

[Victor]

kk is clearly not more profitable. however, just to show how long the long run is after 30k hands my kk is at
2 bb/hand while aa is at 1.3bb/hand. ive seen each about 130 times.

[MrFeelNothin]

[ QUOTE ]
kk is clearly not more profitable. however, just to show how long the long run is after 30k hands my kk is at
2 bb/hand while aa is at 1.3bb/hand. ive seen each about 130 times.

[/ QUOTE ]

This always seems to be the conclusion, doesn't it?

I fukn hate the long run! /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[usmfan]

Almost without fail when I play live some moran will explain to me that AA is a worse hand to have than xx. One idjut had half the table agreeing with him that computer studies had been run and AA loses the most money for people. He was having none of the retorts that it wins the most also and that it is the leading net gain hand.