EV's first content Post :)

[Eevee]

Ok guys heres a trouble hand that i found at PP 50+5.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t315)
CO (t4030)
Button (t1310)
SB (t1540)
BB (t860)
Hero (t1625)
MP1 (t320)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls t50, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (t125) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t65</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t300</font>,
Hero?

My buddy Flareon tells me many people do this with flush draw or just the 9...I felt the raise was kinda high...but it might be a good player with a 3 trying to get a flush draw out. Good fold or no?

-EV

I put "Hero?" cus i wasnt sure but I did end up folding..

[valenzuela]

I dont like the fold, I dont like the preflop limp, I dont like the postflop raise( bet more), however I dont play the 55s so my opinion is almost worthless.

[Eevee]

Ok well heres the deal. I was UTG on a pretty loose table...and the one time i limp, everyone folds? Haha maybe they respect my limp. Anyway, I like my limp. Second, I am in the habit of betting 1/2-3/4 pot on the flop depending on my mood or what I had for lunch. I dont think my bet was bad...if i got a mini raise, i would have pushed. But the 300 bet seemed reaaal fishy.
Thoughts, anyone else?

-(+)EV

[mts]

limping is terrible

but you're trying for a limp/reraise/call/trap i assume?
it's not worth it this early, just raise and hope someone plays back at you.

[Tilt]

I don't like the limp for precisely the reason you folded.

[Eevee]

I dont think people are understanding my play. I was planning on limp reraising. table=loose. Scuba would understand.

+EV

[prepotency]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think people are understanding my play. I was planning on limp reraising. table=loose. Scuba would understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Congrats, you have read scuba's post(s): this play is too fancy for the strength of your hand and this early in the tourney. If the table is that loose, you run the same risk of getting 6 limpers as you do of getting a significant raise. Furthermore, if the table is loose, you'll get calls on your large PF raise but they would still not hit this board and you can buy the pot on the flop or they'll chase with overs and increase your cash. With a raise on a loose table you'll play agianst hands like AJs and AQo and KJs which is what you want, not a million limpers.
raise PF

[Eevee]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think people are understanding my play. I was planning on limp reraising. table=loose. Scuba would understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Congrats, you have read scuba's post(s): this play is too fancy for the strength of your hand and this early in the tourney.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um can you explain this? What do u mean its too fancy? AA limp reraise UTG I think is pretty standard.
Also by loose i dont mean people were calling alot, they had loose raising standards. Haha I dont get why im getting flamed for the limp (reraise).

[prepotency]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think people are understanding my play. I was planning on limp reraising. table=loose. Scuba would understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Congrats, you have read scuba's post(s): this play is too fancy for the strength of your hand and this early in the tourney.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um can you explain this? What do u mean its too fancy? AA limp reraise UTG I think is pretty standard.
Also by loose i dont mean people were calling alot, they had loose raising standards. Haha I dont get why im getting flamed for the limp (reraise).

[/ QUOTE ]

This early in the tourney, a reraise is generally a bad idea. IMO this is because with AA I think the optimal situation is to see the flop with 1 other player. With your attempt at a checkraise, you are inviting too many players to see the flop especially if the table is loose. Personally, I like to get HU on the flop and drain as much $ out of the other player as possible and not let them see the turn/river.

*edit* The point here is that you are letting the BB see the flop for free and furthermore, when you call first UTG it can also invite a string of limpers to come running into the flop which causes a chain-reaction and will not initiate a raise unless there is a monster (which statistically speaking, is unlikely).

[Eevee]

Yeah I what I was thinking of doing was going all in with ANY raise, regardless of limpers. Even at the 55s, i find at a loose table, i will at least get one caller.

But aside from preflop limp,
What are thoughts on the post flop raise by villian?

-EV

[Apathy]

I've said this many times, there is almost no spot in the lower limits where you should fold AA on the flop HU, no matter what the flop or the action.

In this hand I think your read is way off, trips are very unlikely, it looks a lot more like a 9 or other PP.

[prepotency]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I what I was thinking of doing was going all in with ANY raise, regardless of limpers. Even at the 55s, i find at a loose table, i will at least get one caller.

[/ QUOTE ]
I guarantee the opportunity cost of this play will be disadvantageous in the long run. Making a standard raise and buying it on the flop will definitely yield a higher profit in the long run. You can see this time and time again after the flop comes out and they hit top pair and then you push and they call you thinking you are trying to bully them.

[ QUOTE ]
What are thoughts on the post flop raise by villian?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well let's see, you let villain see the flop for free so he could have any two cards. This would pretty much entirely depend on your read of villain considering that you have NO information here. If it were me, I'd push him all in, but then again I wouldn't be in this situation.

[bigdarren]

To answer the original question. The fold is horrible imop. What hands could he possibly have( that he would raise pre flop ) that would beat you at this moment? And if he had one (99, 3x), why would he raise so early and large? Your limp has worked to perfection and you folded to his large, muscle you out, bet. Definatly push... and double up /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[prepotency]

[ QUOTE ]
To answer the original question. The fold is horrible imop. What hands could he possibly have( that he would raise pre flop ) that would beat you at this moment? And if he had one (99, 3x), why would he raise so early and large?

[/ QUOTE ]

What the eff are you talking about. He was in BB and got to see the flop for free.

[bigdarren]

relax, i apolgize, read the hh wrong, OMG!!!!! Still push.

[adanthar]

I'm as close to the other end of the spectrum as you're going to get, and here's what I think: limp bad to decent depending on table, bet fine, fold depends on read.

*if this was the worst player at the table with a VP$IP of &gt;50 and aggression of 0 thus far, good fold. 90% of the time, it pretty much sucks.

BTW, limp/reraising is underrated on this forum, but it's very situation-specific and shouldn't be done this early unless there are a couple of really, really bad LAGs behind.

[prepotency]

[ QUOTE ]
relax, i apolgize, read the hh wrong, OMG!!!!! Still push.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahaha /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[prepotency]

[ QUOTE ]
VP$IP of &gt;50 ...
LAGs

[/ QUOTE ]

define plz?
LAGs = loose aggressive players?