New Bellagio Poker Room Opens Wednesday Night (4/27)

[Dynasty]

A manager in the Bellagio poker room told me the new room will open on Wednesday night- just in time to compete with Wynn which is opening on Thursday.

You can actually peek through the curtains and check out the new room. The best word I can find to describe the the new room is underwhelming.

They spend months doing renovations and the room doesn't seem all that different. The carpeting is new and there's a few new design features. But, it's basically the same with about 7 extra tables.

The only significant new feature is what appears to be a second high-limit room in the back left (walking in from the same main entrance).

Unfathomably, the Bellagio is still going to be using clipboards to maintain their waiting lists. I couldn't believe the manager when she told me they aren't even planning to computerize this.

Right now, it seems to me the Bellagio spent months renovating the room and nothing significant came out of it.

[BigSkiRace]

The Wynn is going to be rediculous I can already feel it.

[onegymrat]

Do you think the seven extra tables or so will impact that long wait for the 8/16 or 15/30 in any way?

[SCfuji]

id say that the 4/8 waitlist has been at least 50 people every single time i went to the b. so yeah, id assume that the extra tables will help if we assume that at least 1 or 2 tables will be used for lower limits.

[Guthrie]

Why doesn't somebody just start Discount Poker in a vacant Wal-Mart building in Vegas? All poker, all the time. Hundreds of tables. I don't really care about plush carpet and expensive chandeliers. All I want is a comfortable chair, good light, competent dealers, honest games, reasonable rake, and an efficient wait list.

[AKQJ10]

Although you have a point, keep in mind that what you value in a room isn't necessarily what a big "donor" would value.

[Luv2DriveTT]

Interesting. I predict it will be a bad investment. Sounds like competition for the high limit games is about to become bigger than they expected.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[TimTimSalabim]

As I understand it, the main purpose of the renovation was adding the new high-limit room, so that the big players would have a more private area. So maybe the bulk of the work went into that.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Dynasty:

My opinion is a little different. The lighting looks like it may hve been improved, and I understand that there will be an automatic shuffler on each table. Also, the room now looks like it is more open to those on the outside looking in than it was before.

It should be a very nice place to play.

best wishes,
mason

[RydenStoompala]

I'll still love that room, Dynasty. There's just something about it.

The lack of an automated wait board is a little silly, but they may be shooting for the same "feel" as the pre-reno version. Thanks for the update. I'm there soon.

[AllVegasPoker.com]

I haven't peeked through the curtain yet, but several of my friends told me it looked fantastic. I'm surprised at some of the reactions. I guess in a few days I'll judge for myself.

[Glider]

When I was at the Bellagio a couple of weeks ago I heard a rumor that I found pretty believable. Supposedly one of the major reasons for the renovation was to improve the security of the high stakes tables. And the reason they wanted to improve the security was that someone got robbed.

Apparently what happened was, one of the high stakes players got up and left his stack of chips (4k+) on the table. A thief came by, grabbed the chips and ran out a side door before anyone could stop him. The thief got away, and the player was out the money, since the Bellagio doesn't guarantee the safety of chips on the table.

If it's true, it makes sense the Bellagio would want to make sure this doesn't happen again.

[chucksim]

[ QUOTE ]
id say that the 4/8 waitlist has been at least 50 people every single time i went to the b. so yeah, id assume that the extra tables will help if we assume that at least 1 or 2 tables will be used for lower limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly hope so. One time last summer, I went in around 9:30 or 10:00 AM and there was immediate seating in a 4/8 game. I figured I found the magic time. However, the next day I went at the same time, and the list was already 10 deep. I like the room, but the LL waits make Borgata's lists seem reasonable.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]

I understand that there will be an automatic shuffler on each table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even the curtains are gone now. You can clearly see the whole room which is completlely done other than some cleaning up in the back.

A quick count showed there will be 33 tables on the main floor- all of which have the automatic shufflers. The old high-limit area appeared to have 5 tables. The new high-limit area appeared to have 2 tables.

[ QUOTE ]
The lighting looks like it may hve been improved

[/ QUOTE ]

I never had a problem with the Bellagio's lighting and don't remember anybody else complaining either.

However, they do have new chairs. That's something I and others have complained about.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the room now looks like it is more open to those on the outside looking in than it was before.

[/ QUOTE ]

It always seemed rather open to me anyway. It still has the same basic design with a rail in which people outside can easily observe the games.

My main point isn't that the Bellagio room isn't good. It'll be just as good as it was before. My point is that the 2-3 months they used to renovate the room doesn't seem to have resulted in any significant change for the average player beyond the automatic shufflers.

What was the point of this big renovation?


A little story

Tonight, the room might have been a little to inviting. As I was checking the room out, I noticed a few guys had gone inside to see it for themselves. A security guard came from the back of the room and informed the men they had to leave- which they did with no incident. As I walked out, I noticed one of the men was Johnny Chan.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfathomably, the Bellagio is still going to be using clipboards to maintain their waiting lists. I couldn't believe the manager when she told me they aren't even planning to computerize this.

[/ QUOTE ]

This arrogance is reminiscent of the Stardust Race and Sports Book's refusal to convert to a computerized board until long after all of the other major books in town had done so. For several years, they kept some minimum wage grunt behind the stage on a ladder, manually changing the numbers every time there was a line change. I think it was the mid to late 90's before they finally gave in.

[lucas9000]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting. I predict it will be a bad investment. Sounds like competition for the high limit games is about to become bigger than they expected.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't it the low limit games that they make more money off of, though?

[ShadowBJ21]

They may make more money from low-limit (than high-limit) poker but they make much more from high-limit poker players playing other (carnival) games!

I think most casinos have to look at poker as a marketing tool that may pay for itself. If they don't have a poker room they may lose customers to other places (and therefore lose overall business). If they have one it may add a little to the casino winnings but it may increase the revenue of the other games.

Unfortunatly it is difficult to calculate and extract these numbers and only the best run places may really be able to take advantage of this.

Shadow

[terrapin314]

The poker landscape of town has really changed. MGM is really capitalizing on the lower end of the market and Bellagio and Wynn will fight it out for the high stakes portion.

This should be great for players as they will work for our business with some competition.

[andyfox]

The few times I've played there I did have a problem with the lighting. I had a hard time seeing my hole cards. My eyes are not great, but I did find the lighting somewhat darker than it is here in the L.A. cardbarns.

Do you know if the big games are staying there, or are they moving to the new Wynn casino?

[andyfox]

Might this have something to do with clipboards being easier to grant favors to favored players than a publicly exposed electronic board?

[tylerdurden]

[ QUOTE ]
Might this have something to do with clipboards being easier to grant favors to favored players than a publicly exposed electronic board?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Might this have something to do with clipboards being easier to grant favors to favored players than a publicly exposed electronic board?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it has much more to do with shortsighted and indifferent management. Poker room managers aren't always the brightest, and the property GM likely doesn't care enough about poker to pay much attention. That's pretty common everywhere but Cali (where Poker is the primary income source).

[goofball]

[ QUOTE ]
Might this have something to do with clipboards being easier to grant favors to favored players than a publicly exposed electronic board?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's not actually hard to grant favors even with an electronic board by just directing said player to an open seat without announcing it.

[Yeknom58]

I'm imagining a conversation like this:

Poker room: "How about an electronic board..we would need software/computers/a few plasmas."

Property GM: "You're already getting a new chair and BRAND NEW clipboards! Goddammit, that's enough"

[Clarkmeister]

That's likely not too far off. "So does the electronic board let us reduce staff?" "no" "so why are we doing it again?"

[MaxPower]

Hey, Foxwoods has shortsighted and indifferent management and they got electronic boards.

[Barry]

[ QUOTE ]
Foxwoods has shortsighted and indifferent management

[/ QUOTE ]

You're being way too kind...

I can't wait to get out there and check out all the new (or renewed) places.

[MercTec]

If it wasn't off ever so slightly, at first glance your avatar looks like you're wearing a really big tie. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[KCFire105]

You'll have plenty of replies by next week, but I'll give you ours once we return anyway. We're staying there 5/4-5/7. We plan on primarily playing Bellagio, Mandalay, MGM and possibly Wynn.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]

Do you know if the big games are staying there, or are they moving to the new Wynn casino?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ask again in a month. It's going to be interesting to see how things shake out.

[Mike Gallo]

I noticed one of the men was Johnny Chan.

Did he have an orange with him and a really colorful shirt on? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Dynasty]

There's at least one significant negative of the new room. The tables on the left side of the room (as you walk in the main entrance) are much too close together. It was extremely cramped.

[duma]

[ QUOTE ]
Why doesn't somebody just start Discount Poker in a vacant Wal-Mart building in Vegas? All poker, all the time. Hundreds of tables. I don't really care about plush carpet and expensive chandeliers. All I want is a comfortable chair, good light, competent dealers, honest games, reasonable rake, and an efficient wait list.

[/ QUOTE ]

come to LA. its all poker all the time. Commerce and the Bike each have 150+ tables.

[Bubu]

What will they spread in the "high limit" room ? Actually, I don't even know what they spread beyong the 80-160 holdem. Anyone know ?

Thanks.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
What will they spread in the "high limit" room ? Actually, I don't even know what they spread beyong the 80-160 holdem. Anyone know ?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's usually mixed games. I believe 300-600 is common among other limits.

[RydenStoompala]

[ QUOTE ]
It was extremely cramped.

[/ QUOTE ]

That really sucks. It's my biggest beef with poker rooms. I know the revs/foot are lowest on the floor, but if you're going to run a room, don't pile people on top of each other. Why do a huge reno and then put in one or two too many tables?

[Altaslim]

Jusy got back from a week in LV and had the chance to play the new room Saturday and Sunday. At EVERY table I played multiple people were bitching about how cramped the room is. Cocktail waitresses had a helluva time getting through the maze and we all felt like sardines. The 8/16 was good, but I much preferred the relative spaciousness of the MGM's new room.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Jusy got back from a week in LV and had the chance to play the new room Saturday and Sunday. At EVERY table I played multiple people were bitching about how cramped the room is. Cocktail waitresses had a helluva time getting through the maze and we all felt like sardines. The 8/16 was good, but I much preferred the relative spaciousness of the MGM's new room.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that the casino is open, I'm sure they will start to consider changes within the next few months to their layout of the floor (including the poker room of course). Does it look like there is room for expansion? It would be wise for them to also devise a private room for the biggest games, ala Bellagio to stay fresh and compete. Wynn is not idiot... I'm sure he will notice the problem quick enough if his staff already hasn't.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Altaslim]

[ QUOTE ]
Wynn is not idiot... I'm sure he will notice the problem quick enough if his staff already hasn't.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

My post was in reference to the new Bellagio room, not the Wynn.

[dogmeat]

well, the space in the Wynn room is no better - I sat at a table and was bumped every minute by players, coctails, floor, dealers coming in, etc. I swear the tables are smaller, I was really uncomfortable. Why they think they need another 500 slots that get almost no play but can't build a room with a little extra space for the players is beyond me. The staff was great, hotel rooms - amazing, food excellent, but I sure wish they had more open space in the poker room (Bellagio too).

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wynn is not idiot... I'm sure he will notice the problem quick enough if his staff already hasn't.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

My post was in reference to the new Bellagio room, not the Wynn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry. I saw your post, saw cramped, and immediately typed Wynn.

TT