folded flush on a paired board, is this +EV?

[NiR]

ok this is how i was thinking. his min bet i thought came from a 9 trips. i bet 4 on river to c his call on his trips but the raise would assure me beat. was this the right play? should i have reraised turn to get a better understanding of his hand?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($26.55)
Hero ($45.9)
BB ($21.38)
UTG ($30.5)
MP ($30.32)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.1.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.50) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks.

Turn: ($0.50) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $2</font>, Hero calls $1.

River: ($4.50) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $15</font>, Hero folds.
not much of a read on anyone since i was multitabling but is this a good fold or is it better to just call it out. and how was my play here? i put him on a house from turn so had to block bet river.


Final Pot: $23.50

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has 9d Jc (full house, nines full of jacks).
Outcome: BB wins $23.50. </font>

[xixel]

He was on the big blind and where he was betting, if he had a boat he'd need Q9 or J9 or JJ or QQ, Q9 and J9 are possible on the BB but I'd either put him on the straight or even 9 rag since he didn't raise preflop or anything of that nature, maybe a bad read but your flush was pretty weak anyway, but maybe not heads up. it's a tricky hand because of the preflop play I guess.

[NiR]

the QQ AND JJ i canceled out cause of no pfr. the Q9 and J9 are possible hands or even a higher flush. i dont c how i can call the river.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]

River: ($4.50) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $15</font>, Hero folds.
i put him on a house from turn so had to block bet river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your play makes no sense. You put him on a better hand, so you bet the pot on the river? That's like pushing for information. Check the river and call a small bet, or make a small river bet and fold to anything more than a minraise.

[NiR]

disregard that part where i put him on a house. i atualy just put him on the 9 trips with his min raise on turn and thought my flush was still possibly good on river. but ya i think i shoulda bet smaller or just called a small bet on river.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

River: ($4.50) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $15</font>, Hero folds.
i put him on a house from turn so had to block bet river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your play makes no sense. You put him on a better hand, so you bet the pot on the river? That's like pushing for information. Check the river and call a small bet, or make a small river bet and fold to anything more than a minraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

[pzhon]

It was folded to you with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif in the small blind. Fold! You only get a 40% discount, you have suited garbage, and you are out of position. If you think you are going to outplay your opponent, reread how you played the hand.

Checking the flop is ok, but I would bet. You might call it a semi-bluff, but you can be a slight favorite (http://twodimes.net/h/?z=916374) over a higher hand that missed the flop. Be aggressive with big draws. You could have 15 outs and your opponent may hate his hand.

Betting twice the pot on the turn was bad. You like your hand, but that doesn't mean you should overbet. You can protect your hand enough with a pot-sized bet, and you don't expose too much money when you are behind.

When you are raised, you have to hope your opponent has a draw or a strange bluff. That may be enough to call.

As I stated in my other post, I recommend that you check the river, and call a small bet, or bet a small amount (1/4 pot) and fold to a substantial raise. Betting the pot to find out if your opponent was bluffing is absurd.

[Wayfare]

I think you played it perfectly. I think almost every piece of advice pzon gives in this thread is incorrect.

[NiR]

great post. ya it was a bad river pot bet in my part. i should have bet 1/4 or 1/3 on river and fold to a reraise. i dont like the check/call small bet on river because of the possible pot bet that i would have to call or even more. i rather bet 1/3 pot on river and fold to a reraise and save money.but excellent post. thanks.

[ QUOTE ]
It was folded to you with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif in the small blind. Fold! You only get a 40% discount, you have suited garbage, and you are out of position. If you think you are going to outplay your opponent, reread how you played the hand.

Checking the flop is ok, but I would bet. You might call it a semi-bluff, but you can be a slight favorite (http://twodimes.net/h/?z=916374) over a higher hand that missed the flop. Be aggressive with big draws. You could have 15 outs and your opponent may hate his hand.

Betting twice the pot on the turn was bad. You like your hand, but that doesn't mean you should overbet. You can protect your hand enough with a pot-sized bet, and you don't expose too much money when you are behind.

When you are raised, you have to hope your opponent has a draw or a strange bluff. That may be enough to call.

As I stated in my other post, I recommend that you check the river, and call a small bet, or bet a small amount (1/4 pot) and fold to a substantial raise. Betting the pot to find out if your opponent was bluffing is absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it perfectly. I think almost every piece of advice pzon gives in this thread is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]
Please elaborate on your reasons. I would welcome a discussion.

[Bukem_]

I think you played the hand well. I don't like raising the turn too much cause it puts you to a semi-tough decision if he raises, since you don't know if he is using his position to semi-bluff a high heart, or if he has you drawing dead.

I would tend to bet the flop 75% of the time.

[emil3000]

I would like an explanation as to why the river bet is good. I like the preflop call, would probably bet the flop; I bet lots of flops. Turn play seems fine.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it perfectly. I think almost every piece of advice pzon gives in this thread is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh, i like betting hte flop

[Wayfare]

In fact, I bet the flop as well.

[NiR]

atually i normally bet the flop AS WELL, but i for some reason didnt. i guess i got pimped by the paired board. but normally i bet the flop on draws.

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it perfectly. I think almost every piece of advice pzon gives in this thread is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]