mid pair best kicker, standard, right?

[iluzion]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (7 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets...

[Matt R.]

I'm primarily a NL player, so I'm somewhat of a novice to limit. I'm trying to improve my limit game, so please feel free to critique me if my ideas are wrong here.
I would check/call the river against an average player. Based on his cold calls on the flop and turn, it looks to me like he has an ace and is worried about his kicker. Against a looser, weak player who could have anything (probably pretty typical at 2/4), I think the river bet is okay. This is read dependent. I think you're behind on the river here (against a decent player) enough to warrant a check/call, as it may save you a bet when you're behind.

[cold_cash]

You're a bigger underdog when he bets as opposed to when he calls.

I agree that a read would be useful, but assuming you don't have one I think the river bet is good, especially if you're planning to call if your opponent bets.

[Fat Nicky]

I'd check/call the river. Give your opponent the chance to bluff if he was on /images/graemlins/heart.gif draw. I don't see him calling too many hands here that you beat.

[QTip]

I wish people would remember to give reads.....

At any rate, without one, I'm value betting this river. What cold-cash said. I can see people who cold-call and then call down, calling the river with plenty of hands we beat.

[cold_cash]

Any hand with a Jack in it will call often enough to make a bet good, along with other miscellaneous crap. (Those hands won't always bet though.)

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
You're a bigger underdog when he bets as opposed to when he calls.

I agree that a read would be useful, but assuming you don't have one I think the river bet is good, especially if you're planning to call if your opponent bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this interesting since his reply is the exact opposite of my reply.

Since we don't have a read, this is a tough to decipher. Some villains bluff when he didn't hit his draw and some would check behind their weak A saving us a bet. Since we don't know the answers to these questions, I really am unsure of this river play.

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
I wish people would remember to give reads.....

At any rate, without one, I'm value betting this river. What cold-cash said. I can see people who cold-call and then call down, calling the river with plenty of hands we beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

the fact that there is no read makes this decision that much more confusing. I am still no convinced of the correct play.

[cold_cash]

It's definetely an easier situation to navigate when you've got a read, but when I'm playing against an unknown opponent I usually assume he or she is more likely to passively call down with crap as opposed to being someone who bluffs too much, (if at all).

[iluzion]

This one I posted without the read because I was curious how to play it against a 2/4 unknown (very knew to it). But villain is a LAP (34/8.5/1.1).

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd check/call the river. Give your opponent the chance to bluff if he was on /images/graemlins/heart.gif draw. I don't see him calling too many hands here that you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

The heart draw would have been bd. I don't think a jack will bet the river here, but will call. Middle pps will call as well if they've gotten this far. There aren't many other hands except bluffs/ ace that will bet the river. I don't see enough legitimate hands that got to the river will bluff the river here. Maybe KQ.

[Fat Nicky]

[ QUOTE ]
It's definetely an easier situation to navigate when you've got a read, but when I'm playing against an unknown opponent I usually assume he or she is more likely to passively call down with crap as opposed to being someone who bluffs too much, (if at all).

[/ QUOTE ]

Point well taken. I also read 27offsuit's reply, both you guys convinced me that betting the river is superior to check/calling.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
This one I posted without the read because I was curious how to play it against a 2/4 unknown

[/ QUOTE ]

Then just give the reads and then ask "also, would you decision to value bet the river change against an unknown."

Anyway, I'm getting the river against this opponent. He's fairly aggressive, and I think you would have heard about it by now if he had something better. I'm thinking he's got something like JTs or a middle pocket pair here.

[ErrantNight]

if he's been calling down with a worse J, he's calling one more, and checking behind.

[ErrantNight]

he's too loose before the flop, and too passive after the flop. you must value bet these chumps to death.

[Matt R.]

After reading the other replies, I'm beginning to like the river bet more against an unknown 2/4 player. I think you would have seen a raise by now if he had an ace, and based on the preflop call, it looks like a middle pocket pair he can't get away from (maybe QJ/JT?). The only thing that's odd to me is that he simply calls a flop and turn bet that can't beat KJ, but I guess this isn't so unusual at a 2/4 game. What did he have?

[RacersEdge]

I think a loose passive player flips over a worse J or a weak A with a 50/50 frequency here...so checking and betting is a wash..

[chief444]

I'd play it the same. I'd expect to see a weak ace pretty often but not often enough that you should check/fold at any point and betting the whole way IMO is better with this more or less drawless flop.