Another old hand

[theblitz]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP ($22.88)
Button ($51.7)
SB ($21.67)
Hero ($40)
UTG ($37.2)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $1</font>, Button calls $1, SB (poster) calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50.

Flop: ($5) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $0.5</font>, Hero calls $0.50, UTG folds, MP calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1</font>, SB calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50.

Turn: ($9) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, MP folds, Button calls $4, SB folds.

River: ($17) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $8</font>, Hero calls $8.

Final Pot: $33

Villain is tight as a fish and passive as a mouse. (23%/0.83%/0.96)

[-Skeme-]

Looks fine.

[george w of poker]

i'd fold the flop. 1) small chance you could already be drawing dead. 2) someone could have JT. 3) your heart ten could be tainted or is an action killer.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd fold the flop. 1) small chance you could already be drawing dead. 2) someone could have JT. 3) your heart ten could be tainted or is an action killer.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is good advice. don't draw to straights on paired+flush boards.

[-Skeme-]

I'm not big on chasing anything on paired boards, but I hate folding anything for a minbet. I think he played it fine for hitting. He didn't raise and slowed down for a check-call when he was given action.

[Zag]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not big on chasing anything on paired boards, but I hate folding anything for a minbet. I think he played it fine for hitting. He didn't raise and slowed down for a check-call when he was given action.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ignore the fact that it was a minimum raise, and focus on the fact that the preflop raiser and someone who called a preflop raise are still yet to act. One of them has an ace and is going to raise, so it is certainly going to cost more than this minimum bet to get to the turn.

Consider also that you are certainly drawing to 4 outs at best, 3 outs likely, and no outs is not out of the question. If you MAKE your hand, bet, and get raised: it is going to give you a sick feeling. Anytime this is true, don't put any money, not even a minimum bet, behind the possibility of making your hand.

[-Skeme-]

I actually do fold on this flop. I just don't think he played it that bad. There is also no way you can determine that original raiser or caller has to have an Ace. In general I agree with your post.

[theblitz]

Thx for all the feedback.
I see that general agreement is that I should have folded on that flop.
Here's how it played out:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP ($22.88)
Button ($51.7)
SB ($21.67)
Hero ($40)
UTG ($37.2)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $1</font>, Button calls $1, SB (poster) calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50.

Flop: ($5) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $0.5</font>, Hero calls $0.50, UTG folds, MP calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1</font>, SB calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50.

Turn: ($9) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, MP folds, Button calls $4, SB folds.

River: ($17) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $8</font>, Hero calls $8.

Final Pot: $33

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Kc Qc (straight, ace high).
Button has Jc Ac (full house, jacks full of aces).
Outcome: Button wins $33. </font>

[buddha]

Havent't read other replies yet...First I think I call this preflop as well. On the flop your opponents played like scared teenage girls actually giving you better than 10/1 pot odds to call for gutshot. The board being paired and double suited blows however as you may be drawing dead.

If i hit this on the turn I would probably bet $12 to bring any slowplayer to the surface and charge heart draw. If reraised by the tight mouse I may fold. If smoothcalled I would check call any non allin bet on the river, hopefully extracting bluff money from draws and limiting damage a little from boats.

[Bukem_]

You are just asking to get in trouble by calling the flop bet. Even for fifty cents.

[TrailofTears]

[ QUOTE ]
I think he played it fine for hitting. He didn't raise and slowed down for a check-call when he was given action.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a few of errors in this logic Skeme. Why is hero drawing to a hand that has zero implied odds? That is to say, why is hero drawing to a hand that he doesn't want to get any action on? If you are drawing to a hand, you want to draw to a hand that will get you a lot of action from a likely second best hand. By your and hero's own admission, the action he got slowed him down (and correctly so), making the drawing not worth the risk.

You don't want to draw to a hand that leaves that you unsure of where you stand (and especially not by a long shot, such as in this hand).

-Trail

[BobboFitos]

flop call is "meh" because your dream card could be JT's dream card, but all said i'd prolly call too because i love calling.

turn you DID hit your card, and there are 2 two flushes... 3 opponents... I bet much more. 7 to 9. get paid off, man.

on river, you say he's tight passive, which means he's less likely to bluff, i'd bet 10 and expect to get paid off by KJ QJ Jx or if he's bad just an ace. fold to a raise, as JT / AJ cant see him raising with trips or bluff being passive.

[-Skeme-]

I agree.