Baseball pitching coach poll

[Shajen]

I'm definitely a Braves fan, so this colors my opinion. A friend of mine says that Mel Stottlemyer (sp?) is better.

I say no way.

Settle the bet, OOT.

danke.

[Uston]

I think Jaret Wright's body of work over the past year and a month gives you quite a bit of ammo.

[kerssens]

I don't know.

[Beerfund]

I too am a huge Braves fan so, whatever, but the 13 straight division championships have been won because of 2 reasons,
1. coaching
2. pitching

The answer is obvious, Rockin Leo! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Jack of Arcades]

There have been multiple studies in the past few months, and Leo's the only current pitching coach to actually affect pitcher performance in any significant way - by knocking off .5 ER off of pitchers.

Could all just be a combination of luck, good defense, and the right pitchers, but I doubt it.

[Cornell Fiji]

Its not even close

[Shajen]

3 people voted other....if you did, care to give a name/cite a reason?

[Soul Daddy]

My knowledge base isn't extensive enough to show what effect a pitching coach has on performance, but it's hard to believe there is a better one than Mazzone.

I can name a slew of pitchers who were superb under his tutelage and average before or after. I'm hard pressed to find the opposite.

[Roan]

i voted for leo, but Ray Miller dropped the ERA of the whole O's staff by a run last year after taking over

[Jack of Arcades]

Baltimore's 2003 ERA: 4.70
Baltimore's 2004 ERA: 4.76

When did he take over?

[PokerFink]

No one is better.

See: Hampton.

Edit: This is coming from a Phillies fan who is tired of seeing the Braves torch us year after year. We did get you in '93 though!

[Dead]

No one is better than Mazzone. Look at what he did with Jaret Wright.

[ QUOTE ]
No one is better than Rick Peterson . Look at what he did with Victor Zambrano.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No one is better than Rick Peterson . Look at what he did with Victor Zambrano.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that this FYP practice was banned.

Anyway, Mazzone clearly made much more progress with Wright than Peterson made with Zambrano. Wright was doing HORRIBLE before he came to Atlanta and worked with Mazzone.

Zambrano was already an average pitcher.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm definitely a Braves fan, so this colors my opinion. A friend of mine says that Mel Stottlemyer (sp?) is better.

I say no way.

Settle the bet, OOT.

danke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your friend is exactly the reason I am beginning to hate rooting for my yankees.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No one is better than Rick Peterson . Look at what he did with Victor Zambrano.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that this FYP practice was banned.

Anyway, Mazzone clearly made much more progress with Wright than Peterson made with Zambrano. Wright was doing HORRIBLE before he came to Atlanta and worked with Mazzone.

Zambrano was already an average pitcher.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it's you that should be banned. It's a goof. Duh. Let me spell out it for you: VICTOR ZAMBRANO STINKS.

[sublime]

i think your thinking of lee mazzile

[thegrammarnazi]

[ QUOTE ]
i think your thinking of lee mazzile

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're thinking of Lee Mazzilli.

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm definitely a Braves fan, so this colors my opinion. A friend of mine says that Mel Stottlemyer (sp?) is better.

I say no way.

Settle the bet, OOT.

danke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your friend is exactly the reason I am beginning to hate rooting for my yankees.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're forgetting Dead and MEBenhoe which are pretty good reasons too

[ceyoung]

rick peterson did a pretty good job with the big 3 in Oakland

[sublime]

I think you're thinking of Lee Mazzilli.

just follow all of my posts, i make a grammatical error in each one /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Bulldog]

The better question is:

Is Mazzone a Hall of Famer?

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
The better question is:

Is Mazzone a Hall of Famer?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you can make an argument that he is.

To all who voted:

Thanks. I was sure I was correct, but it's always nice to have a bunch of random people reinforce my opinions.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ooops, I used the word random.

[Roan]

[ QUOTE ]
Baltimore's 2003 ERA: 4.70
Baltimore's 2004 ERA: 4.76

When did he take over?

[/ QUOTE ]

He took over middle of 04

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3425144

[Jack of Arcades]

So he dropped the average from 5.76 to 4.76? That's mostly just a coincidence, probably.

[Roan]

[ QUOTE ]
So he dropped the average from 5.76 to 4.76? That's mostly just a coincidence, probably.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how it can be a coincidence. Halfway through the season they were worst in the AL, after he took over they were second best, with the exact same staff. I'm not saying that he was directly responsible for the whole difference, there's lots of variables that go into the equation, but I think that he played a large role in the turnaround. Certainly more of a role than could be chalked up to coincidence.

[Jack of Arcades]

Like you said, there are a lot of variables. Most likely the staff was sucking more than they should have and then they started playing better than they were. Whether Ray has a significant portion of that remains to be seen (but it's likely that he didn't, as we would've heard about it by now, I guess).

Maybe he's best with young pitchers, which the Orioles staff mostly is, but isn't so great with guys who have been around.

[Roan]

[ QUOTE ]
Like you said, there are a lot of variables. Most likely the staff was sucking more than they should have and then they started playing better than they were. Whether Ray has a significant portion of that remains to be seen (but it's likely that he didn't, as we would've heard about it by now, I guess).

Maybe he's best with young pitchers, which the Orioles staff mostly is, but isn't so great with guys who have been around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps the reason they were sucking more than they should have and then starting playing better was due to the new pitching coach...

I don't think that your argument that if he really was doing a good job we would have heard about it by now has any truth to it. How much press did the O's get last year? let alone their pitching coach. The pitching coaches who get a lot of press are typically the ones that have a rotation full of studs, like Stottlemyre and Mazzone.

I think a case could be made that Stottlemyre is a bad pitching coach, when was the last time a pitcher got better after going to the Yankees? When was the last time a young Yankees pitcher developed into a great pitcher? Probably not since Pettite and Rivera 5 or 6 years ago.

What would it take to convince you that Miller was making a difference? If dropping the team ERA by a full run per game doesn't cut it, I'm not sure what type of results you're looking for from a pitching coach

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm definitely a Braves fan, so this colors my opinion. A friend of mine says that Mel Stottlemyer (sp?) is better.

I say no way.

Settle the bet, OOT.

danke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your friend is exactly the reason I am beginning to hate rooting for my yankees.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're forgetting Dead and MEBenhoe which are pretty good reasons too

[/ QUOTE ]

Your obsession with me is starting to get pretty funny. Holding an online grudge is just stupid, grow up.

[Jack of Arcades]

Consistent performance for years and years and years. It's taken us this long to acknowledge statistical signifigance for Leo Mazzone.

Furthermore, I'm also speaking of the times he was a pitching coach previously.