First 12k hands checkup...thoughts?

[RedBean]

Using PT, after my first 12k hands on 25NL on party, my stats are as follows:

12.5% VP$IP
4.75% Pre-flop raise
2.20 Post-flop aggression
61.56% Showdowns won

Winrate is 13.2 PTBB/100

Any input on if these look like they should be for a winning TAG player? Any immediate things jump out that could be better?

I have a feeling I should maybe be playing more hands, as noticed by the 12.5% VPIP, but wanted some others input.

[swolfe]

looks good. you're going to have to open up a bit more when you move up and are playing against the same opponents more often, but for the $25's it's fine.

[TrailofTears]

I mean, your winrate really says it all. You are doing very well, and as you get more comfortable you can start to play more hands, and use position to your advantage, but these stats look fine for 25NL. As you move up the levels, you will need to play more hands and whatnot, but adapting to what works is good poker, and you seem to be doing that.

-Trail

[etgryphon]

Wow, Looks pretty good to me. I'd move up or add tables.

You could probably add more speculative hands preflop like pairs and suited connectors in LP.

-Gryph

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, Looks pretty good to me. I'd move up or add tables.

You could probably add more speculative hands preflop like pairs and suited connectors in LP.

-Gryph

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually play the pairs and suited connectors late, but have stayed away from AJo, KJ, and KQo for fear of being dominated, although probably over-cautious considering the general level of play on the party 25NL.

I also tend to avoid Axs unless LP with many, many limpers...it always seems when I finally do get the nut flush, nobody pays it off, and I get sucked into betting my A4 two pair into a set or better two pair to frequently, so I elimated that play to save money.

[-Skeme-]

Perfect.

[DavidC]

If anyone wants to check out these stats, please do so.

13k hands
VPIP 20.65 (this is probably too high?)
PFR: 7.34 (should this be a little higher, in LHE you want this number to get as close as possible to 10%)
ASB 23
won $ WSD: 33
went to sd: 19
won $ at SD: 48
Ag post flop: 4.22

[DavidC]

I'm kinda curious how much you're raising when you do raise...?

[etgryphon]

[ QUOTE ]
Perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding...I want lessons.

-Gryph

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, Looks pretty good to me. I'd move up or add tables.

You could probably add more speculative hands preflop like pairs and suited connectors in LP.

-Gryph

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually play the pairs and suited connectors late, but have stayed away from AJo, KJ, and KQo for fear of being dominated, although probably over-cautious considering the general level of play on the party 25NL.

I also tend to avoid Axs unless LP with many, many limpers...it always seems when I finally do get the nut flush, nobody pays it off, and I get sucked into betting my A4 two pair into a set or better two pair to frequently, so I elimated that play to save money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm not happy about this sort of thing. I'm much more comfortable slamming people with two pair in a raised pot, or really really tight players in early position (who may not be playing smallish pairs) in unraised pots. If I start to get resistance on a ragged flop, I don't like it.

At this level, with players who aren't necessarily awesome, I close my eyes and push, most of the time, but I really really don't like it.

[PokerCat69]

I agree with avoiding KJo and KQo for the most part. Some jackass 'collegeboy' was saying its bad advice but how wrong. Playing really tight is where the money is at.
You can easily open up if your playing a single table and focus on the game. If you multitable, it only leads to trouble.

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm kinda curious how much you're raising when you do raise...?

[/ QUOTE ]

I vary it widely, depending on position and limpers in front of me, but generally $2 in 25NL for everything, from Aces, to the the occasionally button raise with JTs.

Obviously, if everyone I played with had short term memory, I would raise my premiums to $3-$4, and my lesser good hands to $1, but being that I don't want them reading me like my cards are flipped over, I keep a constant $2 on it all.

After all, that nut-peddler who sits at the table for 45 minutes raising to 50c and then finally puts down $5 on his AA rarely sees a paycheck from me.

If anything else, it makes it tough for them to put you on a hand, and you see them going ot the mat on your Aces after you just pre-flop raised JTs.

[MasterShakes]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm kinda curious how much you're raising when you do raise...?

[/ QUOTE ]

People typically vary their raises from 3 to 6 times the big blind, and the variation usually depends on position and how many people have entered the pot.

People also vary on the hands they will raise with, but the standard raising hands are AA-TT, AK, and in many situations, AQ (usually with position). People sometimes mix this up by raising with the more premium suited connectors with position.

8 times the big blind should not be a standard raise from my experience.

[beset7]

Looks like you are doing very well.

I'm curious what hands you'll play in LP? I have a feeling you could add a few. Your w$sd is high so you are showing down big hands most of the time. Good for the 25s/50s but after that people are going to stop giving you any action.

No need to loosen up much because what you are doing is working so well! I'd just be prepared to start playing a little more dynamically. What are your position stats?

[Jazza]

[ QUOTE ]
looks good. you're going to have to open up a bit more when you move up and are playing against the same opponents more often, but for the $25's it's fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

not neccessarilly, I beat the 100NL and 200NL for about 9PTBB/100 hands over 20k hands total and I was a 12.97/3.36

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]

8 times the big blind should not be a standard raise from my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. Fish will pay off in $25 NL by calling with KJs or A8s, then calling down with one pair, but raising to 8 BB is a bad habit if you want to play higher. Half-decent opponents will simply avoid tight players who raise so much unless they have a monster or a premonster.

Another problem with raising to 8 BB is that you don't get the experience of dealing with stacks that are 10-20 times the size of the pot after a preflop raise. That is a common situation in higher levels, and if you are used to stacks that are only 3-8 times as large, you may be setting yourself up for some expensive postflop misplays later.

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree. Fish will pay off in $25 NL by calling with KJs or A8s, then calling down with one pair, but raising to 8 BB is a bad habit if you want to play higher. Half-decent opponents will simply avoid tight players who raise so much unless they have a monster or a premonster.


[/ QUOTE ]

I see your point with the 3-6BB raises in general, and only employ the 8BB raises at the 25NL table, because frankly, I don't think many fish view $2 as "8BB" as much as they view it as "only 2 bucks".

[ QUOTE ]

Another problem with raising to 8 BB is that you don't get the experience of dealing with stacks that are 10-20 times the size of the pot after a preflop raise. That is a common situation in higher levels, and if you are used to stacks that are only 3-8 times as large, you may be setting yourself up for some expensive postflop misplays later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent point I hadn't considered. I think, looking now, this may be my biggest adjustment when going in to 50NL and especially 100NL on Party.

I do play alot of 1-2 NL with 200 max buy at B&M, and frequently see PFR's of $12-$18...but then again, most touristy fish where I play see anything less than $20 as "normal".

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
looks good. you're going to have to open up a bit more when you move up and are playing against the same opponents more often, but for the $25's it's fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

not neccessarilly, I beat the 100NL and 200NL for about 9PTBB/100 hands over 20k hands total and I was a 12.97/3.36

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a healthy win rate. I'm not saying you can't win playing tight; just that you might not win the maximum.

I only played the 100s and 200s for about 6k hands in december before I had to cash out my roll to pay for some tuition and books (playing 50 6max now) and I was at 25/9 and had a win rate of 14.3 ptbb/100. Small sample and I was running good but a lot of my winnings came from playing speculative hands in position and playing better then average after the flop.

I think in some ways the most important thing is not playing to have certain PT numbers but playing a style you are comfortable with. I'm a LAG, I'm comfortable playing mediocre hands after the flop and don't mind higher variance. Having a VPIP in the teens just isn't my style... but looks like you guys are winning at a nice clip doing it so rock on.

[teamdonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
Using PT, after my first 12k hands on 25NL on party, my stats are as follows:

12.5% VP$IP
4.75% Pre-flop raise
2.20 Post-flop aggression
61.56% Showdowns won

Winrate is 13.2 PTBB/100

Any input on if these look like they should be for a winning TAG player? Any immediate things jump out that could be better?

I have a feeling I should maybe be playing more hands, as noticed by the 12.5% VPIP, but wanted some others input.

[/ QUOTE ]

this almost looks cut and pasted from my PT database, except i just hit 6k hands tonight. My thought is the same as yours - loosen up preflop. Every session i actively try to play/raise more pots preflop, and the numbers come out pretty much the same. I think a big reason is because it's 25NL. It's not uncommon for 6 or 7 people to see the flop, probably happens once an orbit. When i'm on the button with 4 limpers already in, i have real trouble playing hands that are most likely ahead of whatever garbage they think is worth a quarter. My guess is, when we move up, if we play the exact same game these numbers will go up all by themselves.