weak trips on 1st hand of 22... right to fold?

[syphlix]

first hand of tourney...

when i get raised all-in should i be assuming i'm beat since i've got a suck kicker or do i think he's on a flushdraw?... and is it even worth it to call at this point?


***** Hand History for Game 1950348799 *****
NL Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:11623555 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Monday, April 25, 13:23:55 EDT 2005
Table Table 13872 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: smitty4321 ( $800 )
Seat 5: KultasHome ( $800 )
Seat 6: mythreequeen ( $800 )
Seat 8: getmonie111 ( $800 )
Seat 7: RakeMeBaby ( $800 )
Seat 4: smyk56 ( $800 )
Seat 9: jeffsup5 ( $800 )
Seat 3: WiseMan151 ( $800 )
Seat 10: silence411 ( $800 )
Seat 2: Roberta114 ( $800 )
Trny:11623555 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RakeMeBaby [ 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ]
getmonie111 calls [15].
jeffsup5 folds.
silence411 folds.
smitty4321 folds.
Roberta114 calls [15].
WiseMan151 calls [15].
smyk56 calls [15].
KultasHome folds.
mythreequeen calls [5].
RakeMeBaby checks.
>You have options at Table 13772 Table!.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif, K /images/graemlins/club.gif ]
mythreequeen checks.
RakeMeBaby checks.
getmonie111 checks.
Roberta114 bets [15].
WiseMan151 folds.
smyk56 calls [15].
mythreequeen calls [15].
RakeMeBaby raises [90].
getmonie111 folds.
Roberta114 is all-In [770]
smyk56 folds.
mythreequeen folds.
RakeMeBaby folds.

[J-Lo]

i'm not patient/disciplined enough to fold this. read dependent, but i call if it is on a weekend or dinner/night time.

[syka16]

push. You get paid off by TPGK enough to make this +EV with trips 77-

[microbet]

Call. There are so many people with the first hand crazies he could have anything. Yes, he could be overbetting because he is crazy or thinks you are, but call anyway.

[pooh74]

I hit the call button and then call support and manually call by voice msg. you be surprised how often he just thinks he outkicks your K and does this...

[hummusx]

Call. Most of the time it's just someone trying to steal it. You can't be afraid of the other 4.

[pooh74]

just wanted to add that even if he has the 4 and outkicks you, you have a decent shot of chopping or hitting a 5 too...not that you should call knowing this, but its a factor that weighs in making this call.

[hummusx]

[ QUOTE ]
I hit the call button and then call support and manually call by voice msg. you be surprised how often he just thinks he outkicks your K and does this...

[/ QUOTE ]

Or better yet, I'm really, really hoping that he was slowplaying AA. Then he'll swear at you and whine and complain about how bad a beat he took.

[KenProspero]

What may Villian have?

Given the way people actually play:

4, better kicker (you're a big dog)
K, darn near anything -- you're a big favorite
Overpair -- you're a big favorite
Two clubs -- you're the favorite
A, darn near anything -- come on, we've all seen it -- you're the huge favorite
Stone cold bluff representing the set -- you're the huge favorite.

My guess would be K, good kicker, but who knows.

My question for you, is what was your game plan when you checked the trips on the flop. I assume you slow played because you wanted action, and were afraid that if you bet everyone would fold. So, your problem is that you now got more action than you anticipated.

Though villian may show up with the case 4 and beat you, that's the risk you have to take.

[hummusx]

Yeah I should have mentioned, I'm not checking this flop. You definitely don't want to give a free card to the person with two clubs. Put in a bet, if everyone folds you get to take it down. Chances are if you make a 2/3 pot bet you are going to get at least one caller with Ax or more likely Kx or something completely stupid. In this case you got lucky and were able to go for a check raise, but plenty of times a flop like this will get checked around and someone gets a free chance to make the flush. I guarantee you'll be more mad in that case than if everyone folds to your reasonable flop bet. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ColdestCall]

I would call here. I would call even though the way you've played the hand announces "I have trips" and Roberta moved in anyway. I would call even though A-4 suited is the only hand Roberta could have that would make any sense. I would call because usually you are going to get shown some sort of random crap, double up, and go on to at least place in the tournament.

[syphlix]

bleh... poop on me...

guess i shoulda called now that i'm reading everyone's responses...

yea... i checked the flop thinking w. that many people someone would stab then i would checkraise... and yes i got a little more action than i bargained for... buti guess i played it weak...

[hummusx]

The funny thing I've learned at the 10/20 on Party is that you really just have to assume everyone is an idiot until they prove otherwise. You'll get caught by a monster now and then, but so much more often you'll bump people out while shaking your head wondering why they got all their money in the pot with their crappy hand.

I've also found that it is almost always correct to just bet your good hands and keep betting them. Sometimes everyone folds and that kinda sucks, but often enough people call along with really dumb hands and pay you off way more than if you try to get fancy. I almost never slow play anything any more, and I definitely get a lot more value out of my hands.

[Bigwig]

Don't check this flop.

[Maulik]

eek, I really think you shouldn't be asking this question. Good players make laydowns, this is the $22s, sometimes you run into bigger hands, big deal. I don't mean to be rude, but this is screaming CALL.

[Vetstadium]

In a 22 an easy call if you lose move on to the next too many loose crazy stupid calls at this level not to call.

[curtains]

Folding here is terrible. They will have trips less than 25% of the time, and when they do, you often have plenty of outs to split. Put yourself in their shoes...would you push allin for 800 in such a small pot if you had trips here? A lot of people will slowplay and just call, or raise a small amount to encourage action.

[The Student]

[ QUOTE ]

Put yourself in their shoes...would you push allin for 800 in such a small pot if you had trips here? A lot of people will slowplay and just call, or raise a small amount to encourage action.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the key - you checked, hoping to check-raise and then psyched yourself out of the pot, but only because you didn't think it all the way through. There are only two hands you're scared of, KK and a stronger 4, but if you think about the bet you're facing, you'd realize that nobody would play either of those hands by trying to push everyone else out of the pot. This screams to me of a flush draw, a king/x, or my favorite, A/K that hits TPTK but goes all-in because they are now scared of draws they let in because they didn't raise pre-flop.

gotta call next time,
ts-

[jpg7n16]

I think your trips beats their top pair - had to chase off the flush draw. Besides... what other flop could you realistically have hoped for?

[curtains]

Also note that the only 4 that we are deathly afraid of, is A4 (and unfortunately it should be the most common). Even against a hand like J4, we have about 30% equity from the pot because of all the split hands. You even have 17% equity against the dreaded A4. These small factors may not seem like much, but when combined with the huge liklihood that you are already winning, they should push you towards calling.

(Note that I would call anyway and wouldn't need the additional satisfaction of knowing I will split versus many trip hands, however it's good to take it into account.)

[curtains]

Also note that the prescence of a flush draw on the board is very good news for you, as a lot of these guys will push here with a flush draw. Folding really is very bad.