Am I the reason this forum is starting to suck?

[Wynton]

I'd like to know whether others here agree with this PM I just got.

"Stop posting so many hands. You are the reason this forum is starting to suck. Get your act together and stop being selfish. there is no reason to post that many hands at one time."

My first reaction was to dismiss this complaint, if for no other reason, that it was unnecessarily obnoxious. But it occurs to me the guy might have a point. In fact, yesterday I posted 4 different hands here (as well as some other more general posts), which was more than I even realized.

In posting so many hands, did I really violate some unwritten rule here? Certainly, it never occurred to me that I was being selfish or that there was a downside to posting several hands in one day. I'm just trying to learn here and figured that, at worst, my posts would get ignored.

But if people here really find it objectionable to post several hands in one day, let me know and I'll stop.

[mikeyKay]

how many posts have you made responding to other peoples hands? im guessing that a ratio your hand posts to responding to other peoples hand posts should be atleast 1 to 5. i think you are kind of missing the point of the forum by just posting your hands and not trying to discuss (or even read) others. you also might be posting hands that are very similiar to posts you arent reading, and people get tired of seeing hands where you have 2 overcards and 2 opponents on the flop. i dont know if thats your case...but i can see someone being upset with that.

-mike

[Wynton]

I don't know the numbers, but I believe I respond a lot to other posts as well. And I certainly read a large percentage of the HUSH posts (as short-tables are my focus right now). So I do not think it is a fair criticism that I am not trying to discuss other people's situations. (If I decline to reply to someone else's question, it's simply because I can't think of anything intelligent to add.)

Like I said, I don't want to violate any unwritten rules here and offend people. But I'm still not sure what the offense is. I thought the guy was simply complaining about the volume of posts, perhaps because they just cluttered about the forum too much.

If the complaint is that the hands are too obvious, that's a whole other matter and much more difficult to address; I'm just not wise enough to know what's obvious at this point. But I will add that, if I saw a very similar situation already discussed, of course I would not bother posting about it.

I think people should understand that, notwithstanding the search function, it's not always simple to locate a post that definitively answers one's question, even if such answers were commonplace six months ago.

[TStoneMBD]

i personally havent seen you post 1 hand, but it can be very annoying when a new poster starts going on a rampage. its kind of an unwritten rule, but it seems to be that you shouldnt really be posting too many new threads until you contributed a good deal to the forum. you gotta kinda pay your dues.

if a situation arises in which you really feel confused, and you dont think similiar things have been discussed before, then post your hand. dont just post every hand that youre unsure about. you will learn alot just by reading what other people have to say about other hands.

once you have contributed enough, you can get a little lazy and start posting more threads and responding a bit less.

id say a good rule for a new poster is to post a hand in a forum once in every 3 days. respond constructively to 30 other hands in the mean time. so a 15:1 ratio with a 3 day period seems about fair. if you arent good enough to advise others, then that is ok too. just be inclined to read other people's threads before creating your own.

i feel like a dick just for saying all that, but that seems to be the code here.

[Wynton]

No, please don't feel like a dick for saying that. If that's the code I want to know. I just wish the guy who sent me that PM bothered to explain it that way.

Thanks for the clarification. I'll try to comply with your suggestions.

[imitation]

[censored] the code, I think the best posters are the ones who post new and original ideas, like hey you guys all raise this from UTG hey, well thats stupid beacause .... Basically when someone comes along and doesn't just regurgitate the same answers thats exciting thats new, thats learning poker. I remember rory's posts used to greated regularly with you fold too much, why fold, i'd never fold, you're a pussy, etc, etc. Now I think i've learnt alot from him questioning the "norm". Hey go back a while and you'll see people criticising strip for openraising Axo from the button as I recall.

Push the boundaries, I for one don't really like posting my own hands because I learn more by critiquing(sp) other regulars. Usually I can look at my own hand histories and say ohh yeh stupid stupid you know better than that. But much more challenging is to take someone elses hand in isolation and say hey WHY do that, WHY not this.

MY 2c, no yuo shouldn't read most of what I write it's very very ordinary.

[krishanleong]

Just reply to every hand for a week. Then feel free to post your balls off. Yes your reply to hand/hand post ratio is too low. Be more agressive, it should be at least 4.0 Agressive posters get this above 10.

Krishan

[TStoneMBD]

you are right, innovative posts even if incorrect are what propel us into the right direction. however, i assume that hes posting hands about whether he should raise the turn or call preflop. thats not innovative and posts like that are everywhere and dont really help anybody.

its also unlikely that hes ready to make innovative posts that question the values of the forum. even if he is, he needs to build a name before anybody will listen to him. which is another code in itself.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
you are right, innovative posts even if incorrect are what propel us into the right direction. however, i assume that hes posting hands about whether he should raise the turn or call preflop. thats not innovative and posts like that are everywhere and dont really help anybody.

its also unlikely that hes ready to make innovative posts that question the values of the forum. even if he is, he needs to build a name before anybody will listen to him. which is another code in itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's interesting to me. I was trying to post hand examples because I thought people preferred those to the more theoretical, general posts. I actually prefer to submit the more abstract posts, but thought they'd get fewer replies.

Before I retreat into the background here for a while, I'll just add that this forum, for better or worse, seems to have a code that differs from some other, smaller forums that I used to frequent. There, people practically begged others to post.

Is any aspect of this "unwritten code" actually written anywhere here? If not, I suggest someone write it down. And if it is, I suggest it get a little more prominence so as to caution well-meaning newbies like myself.

[TStoneMBD]

if you post something abstract it wont get any replies, because people here hate thinking. you gotta stir up some intensity by telling everybody that they are all wrong and that you are right, and tell them why they are wrong. you will either look really brilliant or really stupid. fortunately, if you have a low post count you can just create a new user name.

/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Jeff W]

Theoretical posts are fine, but I really hate posts that are impossible to answer, like: "How do I play missed overcards?"

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
No, please don't feel like a dick for saying that. If that's the code I want to know. I just wish the guy who sent me that PM bothered to explain it that way.


[/ QUOTE ]

The guy who sent u a PM was rude. No need to be unpolite just because someone post a few hands 2 much. If u violated the code by posting some hands he surely did it much more writing like that.

[JrJordan]

Don't worry about the PM you got. I received a similar one when I posted 4 hands within a 2 hour period. Same rude inappropriate answer from a poster who just joined in March and has a total of 9 posts, most of which are one liners that tell people to stop posting hands. I actually enjoy it when people post interesting and difficult hands because it gives me an opportunity to look at situations and how I would play them. I can then respond and compare my answers to everyone else.

I appreciate your contribution to the forum so far Wynton. The influx of new players has recently brought down the level, but I think your activeness is a good precedent for others new guys to follow, even if it is just posting a few interesting hands.

[Michael Davis]

Whoever sent you that PM is a piece of garbage.

-Michael

[TStoneMBD]

WESYTPMIAPOG.

[Guy McSucker]

No you're not the reason. I am.

Ignore that rude person whoever he or she may be.

As for a post/reply ratio, I don't think there is or should be any "rule" or "accepted practice". Especially when you feel like you don't understand the game so well, it seems to me that asking lots of questions and not giving misleading answers to others is probably the best way forward.

Guy.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't worry about the PM you got. I received a similar one when I posted 4 hands within a 2 hour period. Same rude inappropriate answer from a poster who just joined in March and has a total of 9 posts, most of which are one liners that tell people to stop posting hands. I actually enjoy it when people post interesting and difficult hands because it gives me an opportunity to look at situations and how I would play them. I can then respond and compare my answers to everyone else.

I appreciate your contribution to the forum so far Wynton. The influx of new players has recently brought down the level, but I think your activeness is a good precedent for others new guys to follow, even if it is just posting a few interesting hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hah. I just checked the guy's profile. He too joined in March, and presently has only 9 posts.

In any event, I'll try to take a more balanced approach here for now on, since there does seem to be somewhat of an unwritten code. No big deal.

[7ontheline]

Don't worry about it too much - I think people were just noticing that for a while, there were like 10 new posts with no replies from the same couple of people. It's not necessarily rude, but it's not productive to post that much. Find the hand that you're really not sure of, and let people think it over for a while. Otherwise it's hard to really pay attention, and threads that could have been thought-provoking get pushed to the wayside.

[Bluffoon]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know whether others here agree with this PM I just got.

"Stop posting so many hands. You are the reason this forum is starting to suck. Get your act together and stop being selfish. there is no reason to post that many hands at one time."

My first reaction was to dismiss this complaint, if for no other reason, that it was unnecessarily obnoxious. But it occurs to me the guy might have a point. In fact, yesterday I posted 4 different hands here (as well as some other more general posts), which was more than I even realized.

In posting so many hands, did I really violate some unwritten rule here? Certainly, it never occurred to me that I was being selfish or that there was a downside to posting several hands in one day. I'm just trying to learn here and figured that, at worst, my posts would get ignored.

But if people here really find it objectionable to post several hands in one day, let me know and I'll stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wynton do your thing. Everybody learns differently. I would rather learn by reading thinking and responding to other's posts. You like to post your own hands. No one is forced to read posts. There is no charge or limit on what you can post.

I find it interesting that the person who PM'd you is hiding behind a troll account. I crticized you but at least I did it to your face.

Post away.

[arkady]

I got the exact same PM last week, when I posted 4 hands in one day. Something to the extent of me cluttering up the forum and what not. /images/graemlins/frown.gif I am evil.

He didn't join in March by the way he is defintely a poster on 2+2, but is using an alias to spread his wisdom to others. I will never post a bulk of hands ever ever ever again.

[TomBrooks]

I don't know. I just got here. But I'll keep an eye on you.

[climber]

For the record I did not send PMs to anyone.

I did mention both you and JrJordan by name though in the "Jeez Louise ... HUSH edition" (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2233171&page=1&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) post. Sounds like I inspired a loser--sorry about that.

This was becoming a big problem in the Small Stakes forum.
Here is a link to a thread by Clarkmeister (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1748707&page=3&view=colla psed&sb=4&o=14&fpart=1) with a pretty detailed discussion of why its a problem and some good suggestions from some of the poohbahs about how to incorporate the forum into your growth as a poker player.

[tolbiny]

I just skimmed one or two responses, i agree with Michael Davis. Whoever that poster is its none of his/her damn buisness to tell others they are posting to much (especially for four hands in one day)- i would either ignore them or tell them to eff off as its none of their buisness.
On the off chance that its one of the moderators, i would be more polite about it, but since i don't think that making four posts in a day constitutes a breach of your aggrement when youdid the clicky thing when signing up, they also could go eff themselves (though i would be very surprised if it was a moderator, as i have always felt this was a well run site.... with the exception of banning vehn).
so in conclusion,
free vehn.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
once you have contributed enough, you can get a little lazy and start posting more threads and responding a bit less.


[/ QUOTE ]

boooooooooo

[naphand]

The two things I always encourage new people to do is post hands and use the archives. Nothing wrong with posting hands, 4 in a day is not unusual even for some regular posters. What you should not be doing (and this is just my take on it) is posting a lot of "Pre-flop standards", "My stats after 200 hands", "How to play overs on a missed flop" type posts. They are too generic, the answers are highly specific to the game you are in and have been dealt with many many times before. I also have a personal (but very intense) hatred of multiple hand posts, such "20 hands from last night - do I suck?" though we do not see to many of these now, they were reaching plague proportions a few months back. I just ignore them now unless I know the poster usually has something interesting to say.

No Wynton you are not bringing the forum down. That is caused by too many "what's the standard line" posts from bot-players who never seem to want to bother thinking about why a play is used, they just want a procedural manual for how to 4-table Party.

The guy who sent you the PM is an a$$hole. 4 posts in a day is OK but no harm in looking through the archives either.

Just one more thing someone said:

[ QUOTE ]
its kind of an unwritten rule, but it seems to be that you shouldnt really be posting too many new threads until you contributed a good deal to the forum. you gotta kinda pay your dues.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm...what kind of thinking is behind this? If someone joins the forum as a complete noob why on earth would you want this person to start dishing out "advice" to everyone? This is encouraging precisely the kind of 1-liners that are so tedious to plough through, or standard HFAP theory (from the better read noobs). Encouraging new posters to get involved in debate BEFORE they understand how/why to play us like voting for a President who makes the local village idiot look smart...oh hang on /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Wynton, keep posting but ask yourself what you are trying to achieve with a post. You cannot solve all your problems/leaks in a few days. Work on some aspect of your game and choose a hand or two that is pertinent. Be selective about waht you are asking based on how you can use the information you get. Hands that are highly illustrative of what you need to learn are worth posting and persevering with over a few days, with a lot of hands posted you may get information overload or you may just get a frustratingly low response. If you think about your posts the way you think about your game, you will get better value for the time you spend here. Good luck!

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
free vehn

[/ QUOTE ]

stripsqueez - chickenhawk