How should I have played this?

[Chasinjason]

No reads, early in $100 NL

NL Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Trny:11619186 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Monday, April 25, 07:51:16 EDT 2005
Table Table 35018 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: keifrichard ( $985 )
Seat 2: fossilkid99 ( $975 )
Seat 4: IrieStewie ( $975 )
Seat 5: TIMTHEMIDGET ( $1015 )
Seat 7: cbw11775 ( $2315 )
Seat 8: tilt_control ( $2055 )
Seat 10: paulblanco1 ( $705 )
Seat 6: Nolongrun ( $975 )
Trny:11619186 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Nolongrun [ Kc As ]
paulblanco1 calls [15].
keifrichard calls [15].
fossilkid99 folds.
IrieStewie folds.
TIMTHEMIDGET folds.
paulblanco1: the computer hates me tonight
Nolongrun raises [70].
cbw11775 calls [60].
tilt_control folds.
cbw11775: tonight?
paulblanco1 folds.
keifrichard calls [55].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3h, Th, Qc ]
cbw11775: its morning
cbw11775 bets [35].
keifrichard calls [35].
Nolongrun calls [35].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qs ]
cbw11775 checks.
keifrichard bets [100].
Nolongrun folds.
cbw11775 calls [100].
** Dealing River ** [ 2d ]
paulblanco1: ya maybee thats problem
cbw11775 checks.
cbw11775: lol
keifrichard bets [200].
cbw11775 folds.
keifrichard does not show cards.
keifrichard wins 745 chips

[ripped]

there is no calling here. Either raise or fold. The point raising is to buy the turn for free. if you are going to let them control then hand you might as well fold it on the flop.

[Al P]

?

A call is fine here. Why the hell do you raise when you're on a 10:1 draw?

[hummusx]

[ QUOTE ]
?

A call is fine here. Why the hell do you raise when you're on a 10:1 draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're assuming that the hand can only be won with a straight. An A or K could also be a winner, which him 10 outs instead of 4. Plus, if you raise you a) have a chance of winning the pot immediately and b) find out where you are. A bet of 35 into a pot of over 200 is pretty weak. I'd raise and hope for everyone to fold. If I'm reraised, I can fold easily. If I'm called, I'm done with the hand unless I improve.

[syka16]

[ QUOTE ]
there is no calling here. Either raise or fold. The point raising is to buy the turn for free. if you are going to let them control then hand you might as well fold it on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

folding is your worst option with odds like that...

[ripped]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
?

A call is fine here. Why the hell do you raise when you're on a 10:1 draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're assuming that the hand can only be won with a straight. An A or K could also be a winner, which him 10 outs instead of 4. Plus, if you raise you a) have a chance of winning the pot immediately and b) find out where you are. A bet of 35 into a pot of over 200 is pretty weak. I'd raise and hope for everyone to fold. If I'm reraised, I can fold easily. If I'm called, I'm done with the hand unless I improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ty, exactly what I would have replied with word for word. Well said.

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
?

A call is fine here. Why the hell do you raise when you're on a 10:1 draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're assuming that the hand can only be won with a straight. An A or K could also be a winner, which him 10 outs instead of 4. Plus, if you raise you a) have a chance of winning the pot immediately and b) find out where you are. A bet of 35 into a pot of over 200 is pretty weak. I'd raise and hope for everyone to fold. If I'm reraised, I can fold easily. If I'm called, I'm done with the hand unless I improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not discounting a K or A (from 6 outs) on a QT two heart board is pretty foolish. I'd add maybe 3 outs here.

I don't agree with throwing away many more chips to "find out where you are". You should have an idea before you spew away many more chips.

Remember to ask yourself, "how badly do I need this pot?". It's early in the tournament, the pot is relatively small, you've been bet into and have more than 1 opponent who has already called the bet. It should be fairly obvious you're behind here.

[ripped]

I dont get what you are trying to get at. Are you saying he should fold for the tiny bet of 35 which is 1 of 2 things.

1. A monster
2. A Weak Q, opened ended str8 or the flush draw.

Raise this pot to about 80 and find out where you are.

[BradleyT]

No not fold at all. I just don't think raising is great. And if you raise to 80, I don't think that's buying you anymore information than you had at the start of the hand.

[bigredlemon]

I haven't decided whether raising is a good idea, but one reason to raise is to get ride of the flush draws and get heads up with the queens. Right now, Hero has to dodge a heart on the turn and river to win it. Thus if he bets, it'll need to be a sizable amount (t200+) Given his large preflop raise, this also allows him to represent either TPTK or an overpair, and thus get weak queens to fold.

The down side being, you're putting a lot of money in the middle on a draw, and you could get raised all in by either someone with the queens (unlikely) or with a flush draw (quite possibly), and Hero can't call the all in even if he's fairly sure its a flush draw.

[syka16]

but it gets you a good chance at a free card.