Does Clarkmiester's Theorem Apply to the Turn?

[wrto4556]

Villian is 50/8/.7-75 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls.

I bet planning to fold to a raise. But I had no clue what to do if he just called me...

River: (7 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls.

So I pulled a clarkmiester.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Is this close enough to the same situation to use big C's theorem...twice?

[MagicFlea]

Not familiar with Clarkmeister's theorem. I like the turn bet, but I check/fold after he calls.

I'll speculate: clarkmeister says if you do something on one street and nothing changes on the next, you do it again?

Unfortunately something has changed... you bet into him hoping he would fold without a decent /images/graemlins/heart.gif, when he didn't I think you learned a lot about his hand, namely that you are cooked.

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately something has changed... you bet into him hoping he would fold without a decent /images/graemlins/heart.gif, when he didn't I think you learned a lot about his hand, namely that you are cooked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you see villains stats?

[Harv72b]

Even loose/passives generally fold to a 4-flush board if they don't have the flush. It's probably something crazy like 5-high, but after he calls I check the river &amp; hope he doesn't have the nerve to bet it.

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
hope he doesn't have the nerve to bet it.

[/ QUOTE ]

...so you fold if he does. OK.

Is that the standard line for a four flush turn? Bet/fold-check/fold?

[RacersEdge]

I'd be curious to know what a clarkmester theorem is also. IF it means bet the river, I think I like it.

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be curious to know what a clarkmester theorem is also. IF it means bet the river, I think I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I may be off a little but it's something along the lines of:

1) It's heads up on the river.
2) The river completes a 4-flush
3) Hero is out of position
equals
Bet any two cards/fold to a raise...unless you got a good flush, obviously.

[Harv72b]

I don't know if it's the standard line; to be honest, I don't even know that I'd be able to fold my aces if he did bet the river (I have a love affair with aces--they win 80% of the time I get them, and in return I don't fold them /images/graemlins/grin.gif).

I guess what it boils down to is, if you didn't get raised on the turn, your opponent is not tricky (this guy doesn't seem to be), and you intend to call a river bet, bet the river yourself. I just think that against this particular opponent (or any really passive one), you stand a decent chance of him checking a weak flush through, saving you a river bet. By the same token I wouldn't expect him to bet a non-flush hand if checked to, but like I said--I have a really hard time folding AA. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Willluck]

I just don't see the value in betting the river here...personally I check-call more than bet-fold here. It is really unlikely they will fold a weak flush, and it is more unlikely that they will call you down w/o a flush in 2/4 unless they have a set.

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess what it boils down to is, if you didn't get raised on the turn, your opponent is not tricky (this guy doesn't seem to be), and you intend to call a river bet, bet the river yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I hate about the hand. I don't want to fold, so if im going to call a bet I bet myself so worse hands pay off...but christ, it feels so over the top.

So what's your take? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[brazilio]

This pot's so ridiculously small, I don't even know if it's worth it to fight over. 5BB, and if he calls the turn you're going to have to probably pay another BB. That's 2BB for 6, and in random hands he's got a 40% chance of having a heart, and I can't imagine a heart's going to be less than a random percentile. I would never have thought about just giving it up on the turn, but I'm really thinking about it now.

[wrto4556]

I hate to do it.

[brazilio]

I hate to do it too, pot's just so small, and you've got two streets worth of betting left and OOP.