Two Pair play is killing me

[Buccaneer]

I am having so much trouble with playing two pair that I have begun to fold them just to get away from them. I believe that if I could improve my play of these hands I would be a break even player.

I play them with this in mind: If I stay away from starting hands that are junk and less than one card apart I am decreasing the chanse of a high and low pair. I do ok if I have a KQ and flop two pair, who wouldn't but a QTs or a A8s gets me into trouble all the time. I play at low limit so there are always one too many guys playing 23 catching a full house. I am not whinning about this but I am unable to adjust to the loosness of the game when playing this pair.

I have been unable to find anything in the archives about this. I am hoping that someone might have a link handy that explains two pair play or some comments that might help.

[MoP_86]

I have two points here.

Firstly two pair is a very strong hand and you are probably just dealing with some varience here...

Secondly... if you want to get away from those weaker two pairs then you should think about tightening up a bit and only playing those less powerfull hands from LP.

[27offsooot]

Read the first sentence. Post hands.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
Read the first sentence. Post hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that you are correct in that ALL post need to have a hand posted with it. I will try not to make that mistake on YOUR message board again.

That is a good idea to post a hand but I do not have one handy on this computer. I went and got one of your hands to post, I am sure you don't mind. It demonstrates some of the problems you have playing two pair but I have over come.

Quote:
After 20 hands, villain seems weak/ tight. After this hand, I felt he wasn't the only weak-tightie at the table.

The TAG is a TAG after a decent sample size.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG :#A500AF(TAG)/ calls, 4 folds, CO :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, TAG checks, Villain bets, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls, TAG calls.

Turn: (4 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, TAG checks, Villain bets, Hero folds, TAG folds.

Final Pot: 5 BB

Someone want to give me a better line. I think the TAG overcall and villain's second barrel scared me more than they should have on the flop.

This is one type of the hands that I am not having trouble with. I would have played it this way. If I had saw the table play twenty hands I would have decided if they were loose or tight. All of them.

I would play the hand faster. I would raise on BB and try to take the hand down then. You know TAG checked so he doesnt Have AA etc or he would have raised, CO calls: he is worth a watch but not to fear yet, Button calls: he does not show strength, SB completes so his hand is worth half a bet, and you, on the BB call. I would also have raised this for info.

You all play weak on the flop. Villain bets but it looks like he is fishing. A check raise here may have told him enough to fold. What is going to hurt you here? A super premo hand???? I would have discounted that preflop. Ace anything would have become agressive here or earlier. Worried about QQ, not a chance in my book if he is TAG he would have woken up preflop. Don't you want the pot? No one else does. Why did you not take it. I would have reached up and picked this apple off the tree.

Turn wise you show no agression again. Are you waiting for a net teller transfer from villain??? I would have bet out here or c/r. I am just glad that you did not take it to the river, you would have dropped it there faster than a prom dress on prom night. My thoughts on this hand do not consider the math. I don't think Steven Hawkin could do the math for two pair.

<font color="red"> What MONSTER did VILLAIN beat you with?</font> Were you afraid he would spike that third duce? There is no flush or serious straight that would cause me to spill my chips.

Well that is how I play it and I am sticking to it. Someone care to point out the errors of my thought process?

[PokerAce]

Wow, I think you took his reply a little too personally, didn't you? Seeking out a previous post of his to shoot his play down?

Seriously, I think what 27offsooot is trying to say is that you do poorly with two pair because you are folding them now (your first sentence). That would certainly explain why you are losing with them.

Posting hands where you have had two pair and were questioning the best play is the best way to learn how to play them.

There are two different kinds of two pair in holdem. One is where two cards on the board match your two hole cards, and the other is when you have a pair and there's a pair on the board. The first is pretty easy to play. You need to push these hard. The second, like the sample you posted, is a little more difficult and you need to be cautious. Especially if the pair is in the playing zone. In other words, a flop of AQA is far scarier than a flop of 2Q2. A lot of people will play any ace, but usually people don't play with 2s.

Which kind of two pair do you have the most problems with?

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
I went and got one of your hands to post

[/ QUOTE ]

About as uncool as it gets.

[shant]

Wow, someone's panties knotted hard.

Post hands that YOU'VE played. Saying "I win with KQ when I make 2-pair but lose with QT" makes less sense than Steven Hawkin's prom dress on math night or whatever you said.

[New001]

You see that his 2-pair is Aces and Queens, right? And that his 10 doesn't even play? He loses to any Ace, and he splits with or loses to any other Queen. The pot is very small.

I think he was just telling you to post some hands so people can give you advice on how to play them.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
It demonstrates some of the problems you have playing two pair but I have over come.

[/ QUOTE ]

There you go, your problem is solved. Have a nice day. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
That is a good idea to post a hand but I do not have one handy on this computer. I went and got one of your hands to post, I am sure you don't mind. It demonstrates some of the problems you have playing two pair but I have over come.


[/ QUOTE ]

you're a dick.

[Buccaneer]

I do not think that I took his post personal at all. I did think that it was UNINFORMATIVE. I described my play of 2P and how I look at the hand and play it. I did not have a specific hand in mind so I posted a general question which you and several others seem to understand.

I am folding them because I am afraid of them. Not good. A very stupid way to play them I am sure. I think that some of my difficulty is related to the low stakes I play, more specificaly how I ADJUST TO THE PLAY OF LOW LIMIT GAMES.

Like I posted I try to play good hands that do not allow for the big gap between the pairs. I do play AXs but only to a gap of A8 maybe A7 depending on position and # of players. Is this correct????

Pair on the board is the type I have the most problem with. I have the most trouble with this type of 2P and suspect that my reluctance to play 2P has bleed over to a board that pairs what is in your hand.

I will try to post a specific hand ASAP.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
Post hands that YOU'VE played. Saying "I win with KQ when I make 2-pair but lose with QT" makes less sense than Steven Hawkin's prom dress on math night or whatever you said.


[/ QUOTE ]
I was trying to illistrate that KQ had no gap for a higher pair to sneak in. A paired QT would loose to a QJ.

I didn't say Steven Hawkin wore a prom dress but I suspect that a thong is not out of the question.

[damaniac]

Um, KQ can lose to AQ/AK making two pair. Really, this example makes no sense. If I understand correctly (forgive me if I do not), your fear is hitting two pair against top pair to a hand that dominates you (QT vs. QJ on a QTx board), and then the QJ pairing his J. At that point in the hand, he's drawing to 3 outs. Sometimes he'll hit it. Most of the time he won't and he'll pay you off very nicely. However, if you are finding yourself dominated too often (as QT is to QJ) you might want to make sure your preflop play is solid and you're not cold-calling too much or playing weak hands too early, etc.

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not think that I took his post personal at all. I did think that it was UNINFORMATIVE. I described my play of 2P and how I look at the hand and play it. I did not have a specific hand in mind so I posted a general question which you and several others seem to understand.

I am folding them because I am afraid of them. Not good. A very stupid way to play them I am sure. I think that some of my difficulty is related to the low stakes I play, more specificaly how I ADJUST TO THE PLAY OF LOW LIMIT GAMES.

Like I posted I try to play good hands that do not allow for the big gap between the pairs. I do play AXs but only to a gap of A8 maybe A7 depending on position and # of players. Is this correct????

Pair on the board is the type I have the most problem with. I have the most trouble with this type of 2P and suspect that my reluctance to play 2P has bleed over to a board that pairs what is in your hand.

I will try to post a specific hand ASAP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would try to use CAPS with greater frequency -- also, mix it up a bit by randomly capping words you do not intend to emphasize. This will prevent your more observant opponents from getting a good read on you. If you're going to use the multiple punctionation repetition ("?????") you've got to use it in less obvious spots -- a solid ,,,,,,, where a single comma would appear is very effective.

And I agree with pinky that you are a dic[/i]k.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
I do play AXs but only to a gap of A8 maybe A7 depending on position and # of players. Is this correct????

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with your original post and this quote is that you are looking for always-never sorts of rules. There is no always in poker. Usually there's not even a usually. For example, sometimes its right to limp UTG with A2s. Sometimes not. It depends on the situation.

You've asked a question about a type of a hand but didn't provide the specifics by posting a hand history. That's why you have to post hands or reply to other peoples' hands. That's probably what 27offsuit was trying to say. You may find the responses uninformative, but there's little information that we can give you.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
You see that his 2-pair is Aces and Queens, right?<font color="red"> Yes </font> And that his 10 doesn't even play? <font color="red"> To be honest I believe that my mind is in denial and will not let me accept that the TT pair has no value. This is a problem with my game. Make the straight while ignoring the flush draw someone may have hit and get beat by it on show down. I am working on it. </font>He loses to any Ace, and he splits with or loses to any other Queen.<font color="red"> My post explains why I do not believe that the VILLAIN could be put on an ACE. 27offsuit stated that he thought VILLAIN was tight as well. Do you have other thoughts? Please post them, I am sure they would be of note.</font> The pot is very small.<font color="red"> I have been trying to win money. Small pots are money too. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

[Buccaneer]

Son, I was posting on BBS before we had caps and even text clogged up our dial up modems. I am well aware of msb manners,,,,,, thank you very much. I guess you won't like my use of a colored font in another of my post. There is an ignore feature on this board if you would like instructions on using it.

[ QUOTE ]
And I agree with pinky that you are a dick.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just thought that you and pinky were just pushing out the "welcome wagon" for me and that I would fit right in on 2+2.

Everyone seems to get flamed here by the regulars. I don't really care to pledge this fraternity and go through your hell week. I will just post and you can respond, or not. It would be nice if you post about poker though.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with your original post and this quote is that you are looking for always-never sorts of rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is probably true. My thought processes are very linear.

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
Son, I was posting on BBS before we had caps and even text clogged up our dial up modems.

[...]

Everyone seems to get flamed here by the regulars.

[/ QUOTE ]

In reality, <font color="red">only</font> <font color="green">dic[/b]ks</font> <font color="#666666">get</font> <font color="orange">flamed </font> <font color="purple"> by </font> <font color="blue">regulars </font>. AND YOU'RE a </font> [/i]<font color="yellow">dick;</font> hence your flaming. </font>

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]


In reality, <font color="red">only</font> <font color="green">dic[/b]ks</font> <font color="#666666">get</font> <font color="orange">flamed </font> <font color="purple"> by </font> <font color="blue">regulars </font>. AND YOU'RE a </font> [/i]<font color="yellow">dick;</font> hence your flaming. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be Mr. Dick to you.

Wow, a post in pretty pretty colors with caps and bold. I hope you don't have one of those faders like my 3rd grader. Your mother didn't breast feed you did she? Now lets take it private, we are spamming now.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with your original post and this quote is that you are looking for always-never sorts of rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is probably true. My thought processes are very linear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker is not linear. It is also unforgiving of inflexible strategies.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is not linear. It is also unforgiving of inflexible strategies.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is one of the things I am working on. Thanks for your help.