$55: Is there a difference between 725, 900, and 1250 chips? I say no.

[AA suited]

Background:
15/30 blinds, no reads, everyone has ~1k stacks

I'm in mp with some hand (doesnt matter for the topic being discussed). there's 1 limper. i raise to 100. button calls, blinds fold, limper calls.

pot= 345 chips

flop = 2 8 T (2 tone) and it misses me

if i check/fold, i have 900 chips left.

if checked to me, i'll make a continuation bet of 1/2 pot (175 chips) and hope to win right there. my stack will be 1245 if i win.

but if called, i check/fold if i dont improve. if i lose, i'm down to 725 chips.


My reasoning why 725, 900 and 1250 chips are more or less the same:

1) At 25/50 blinds, I have more than 10BB. I'm not going all-in preflop.

2) at 50/100 blinds or higher, I have ~10BB or less. At these blinds levels, i WILL usually make a continuation bet no matter what vs 1 opponent, if i'm the 1st to bet and i raised preflop (LEAK here??? /images/graemlins/confused.gif).

at 1250 chips, i raise 250 preflop and my stack is down to 1000. 1 caller. pot is between 500 and 650.

continuation bet on flop = 1/2pot = 250 to 325 chips. my stack is now between 750 and 675.

i've now committed 40%+ of my stack to this hand. general concenus is that if you are willing to risk 40%+ of your stack, push instead.

<font color="red">FLAW IN MY REASONING? /images/graemlins/confused.gif </font>

Do you think there's a difference between 750 and 1250 chips? If so, WHY?

[pooh74]

1. at 750, you still dont have to push PF, but you may to call a push if you're reraised PF...thats why.

2. doubling up has less equity (twice as little)

3. You have less fold equity when blinds increase.

not to say you're wrong about continuation bets, but there is a difference between 750 and 1250...should be obvious

[AJ_Rider]

Furthermore, there's a big difference if you lose a coin-flip with a 500 stack.

[AA suited]

bump

[Maulik]

continuation bet?

[beeyjay]

2. I don't know if this is a leak or not but I can tell you I rarely do this. When you have a read and the opponent seems weak, fire it out there. As for just planning or having this continuation bet as a normal strategy when the blinds are past level 3 I tend to think this is leakage. I would say after level 1 and 2 I rarely make this bet after missing. Its too many chips to be committing for not enough gain in my opinoin. This may be very weak tight of me but it seems to work out alright. I would be interested to hear what others think as there are times when I could benefit from being more aggressive

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
continuation bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

A bet made on the flop with a missed hand (AK/AQ) after you've raised preflop.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think there's a difference between 750 and 1250 chips? If so, WHY?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, yeah. 500 chips, to be precise.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You are saying that your raising/calling standards are the same at both stack sizes, when the blinds are low?

[Al P]

It's really quite simple.

More chips = better.

Always.

[pooh74]

i know what he's getting at...but he's wrong.

He's saying that what you gain by those continuation bets and # of pots you win is NOT outweighed by the times you lose and have 750...overall EV+. I disagree...

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think there's a difference between 750 and 1250 chips? If so, WHY?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, yeah. 500 chips, to be precise.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You are saying that your raising/calling standards are the same at both stack sizes, when the blinds are low?

[/ QUOTE ]

bigwig,

i'm saying that at lvl4 there's no difference between 750 and 1250 chips since you're pushing preflop with both.

you're either going to get eliminated or double up.

[lastchance]

Except you get a few more rounds with 1250 chips. You can fold a few hands, you get better FE, and there's a huge difference between 2500 chips and 1450.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think there's a difference between 750 and 1250 chips? If so, WHY?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, yeah. 500 chips, to be precise.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You are saying that your raising/calling standards are the same at both stack sizes, when the blinds are low?

[/ QUOTE ]

bigwig,

i'm saying that at lvl4 there's no difference between 750 and 1250 chips since you're pushing preflop with both.

you're either going to get eliminated or double up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im gonna copy and paste and revise my previous repsonse in case you missed it...it is still relevant here and I don't think you realize how important it is.

1. at 750, you still dont have to push PF, but you may have to call a push if you're reraised PF

2. doubling up has less equity. Instead of going to 2500 you goto 1500 and I think this is by far the biggest reason.

3. You have less fold equity when blinds increase. someone will be more likely to call your pushes/raises with 2-1 odds than 3-1...to see all 5 cards for less money is a big deal for your opponents.

You should reconsider you thinking here...

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think there's a difference between 750 and 1250 chips? If so, WHY?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, yeah. 500 chips, to be precise.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You are saying that your raising/calling standards are the same at both stack sizes, when the blinds are low?

[/ QUOTE ]

bigwig,

i'm saying that at lvl4 there's no difference between 750 and 1250 chips since you're pushing preflop with both.

you're either going to get eliminated or double up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you pushing with 12.5BB? It may be the correct move with a limper, or a hand that you don't want a flop with, but you shouldn't be auto pushing every raising hand with 12.5BB.

Regardless, I disagree. If you double up with 750, you have 1500. Double up with 1200, and you're at 2400.

1500-2400. Big difference. Conserving chips for your chance to double up is why we don't limp with JTs UTG on the 1st level, fold to a preflop raise, shrug and say, "It only cost me 15 chips."

[Pokerscott]

I agree with many of the responses. I would add that chips = time and time = money. If you have an extra 500 chips you can afford to be a bit more selective with your pushing. Seeing an additional 10 hands or so before you get into MUST push range really improves your chances. You also get the opportunity to catch one of the smaller stacks pushing if you look down and see a really nice hand.

1250 &gt;&gt; 750 in terms of expected payout imo.

Pokerscott

[curtains]

Is this a joke? We are arguing over whether 750 chips is the same as 1250? You start the tournament with 750, I start with 1250...my ROI will be so much higher than yours it's ridiculous.