work out routine

[JaBlue]

ok so I haven't lifted weights in a long time but I want to get back into it.

Anyway, my goal is to increase strength and bulk up really. what is a good routine for this? Is it best to do some kind of pyramid scheme to bulk up i.e. go to failure 8-6-4 or something while increasing weight? I barely know what I'm talking about so all of you guys that can bench 300, how did you get there?

thanks

[jakethebake]

It's been posted here before but stick to the big three:

Benchpress
Squat
Deadlift

5x5 2-3 times a week.

[ceyoung]

try max-ot. www.ast-ss.com (http://www.ast-ss.com)
its the best way that ive found to gain weight and get strong. however, most of your results will come from solid nutrition.

[JaBlue]

i'm not going to do any supplement crap, but thanks anwyay

[JaBlue]

I need a broader work out than this;

I intend to work out: Pecs, shoulders, back, biceps, triceps,and maybe even some leg stuff.

[ceyoung]

did you even bother to check out the max-ot section? they have a really solid workout plan that produces the best results for people not taking steroids.

http://www.ast-ss.com/max-ot/max-ot_intro.asp

also, solid nutrition is not just about supplements. eat lots of chicken, low fat, and clean carbs.

[gamblore99]

If I knew how to post an image, I would give you my routine. It is for hypertrophy and is totally sweet. Been on it for 3 months now I have gained like 12 pounds.

It consists of dumbel flat chess press, dumbell shoulder press, widegrip lat pulldown, cable triceps pushdown, Bicep Rope hammer curls. And prone I's-though I forgotten what they are, does anyone know?

[ceyoung]

you can use my account, the email is dead so it doesnt matter, so you dont have to sign up for a newsletter

login: ceyoung@ucdavis.edu
pass: jablue

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I need a broader work out than this;

[/ QUOTE ]

No you don't. That works everything. There's no reason to work all the smaller muscle groups by themselves. It's counterproductive.

[JaBlue]

ok CEYoung I admit I didn't even look at it. Thanks a ton man

[ceyoung]

also, that picture of jeff willet should be a good enough testimonial

[SackUp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I need a broader work out than this;

[/ QUOTE ]

No you don't. That works everything. There's no reason to work all the smaller muscle groups by themselves. It's counterproductive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would definitely disagree here. There is a lot to be had from doing auxillary lifts. Sure you need to do the core ones, but all the auxillary lifts will really hope out overall. Don't neglect those.

[Stuey]

I have been working out off and on for 10 years. I switch off the weights often to focus on cardio if I have a race I want to enter. When I return to the weights after a 1 or 2 month break it is like I had never lifted before. I still don’t consider myself an expert on weight training. But I would like to hear if anyone agrees/disagrees with my ideas.

1. ceyoung said solid nutrition is not just about supplements. eat lots of chicken, low fat, and clean carbs. This is the most important part and can’t be stressed enough IMO.

2. jakethebake said Benchpress, Squat, Deadlift, 5x5 2-
3 times a week. This looks/sounds to simple/easy to possibly work. It is not easy if done properly and it will work for sure.

3. Most people fail simple because they don’t stick with it. You need to do some type of weight training 3 times a week every week period no excuses. If you don’t feel like doing it, tough go do a easier version of what you had planned but NEVER skip it totally unless you are bed sick.

4. Any workout is tough if you do it right. Always lift light enough that you are positive you are lifting with near perfect form. This is hard on the ego but it is important. If you are not exhausted when you reach the number of reps you planned just do a few more till your wasted. Muscles don’t know the difference between 5 and 10 they only know when they can’t move anymore.

5. I read of a guy doing 3 sets of 10 reps each of barbell curls and doing it with such intensity he puked after. This sounded impossible to me. I had been doing the same set/reps and it was easy. Intensity is hard to understand or explain. You control the intensity it does not matter how many reps you do or how much weight you use. Don’t just move the weight from point a to point b and think that counts. You have to feel the weight at all times. Feel it against the muscle you are after. There should be no resting spots during or between reps keep the muscle working at all times.

6. You will never be happy with your progress. You might have some great results in the first year or so. But after that it is just pain and suffering and you don’t notice your improvements. But you will always improve if you keep doing it and keep pushing yourself. You just get fussy.

The people that can benchpress 300 pounds are naturally strong at this exercise. Each person has a strong and weak area. I can't bench more than 200 but I can leg press over 800 for 10 reps easy. I don't even train legs very often. Like I said you will never be satisfied. I am sure if I trained legs as hard as I hit my upper body I could do some scary stuff as far as squats/leg presses go. But for some reason I want to increase my bench. Go figure.

[GrekeHaus]

What you do should largely depend on what your goals are as well. Do you want to really bulk up or do you just want your muscles to get ripped and toned?

If your goal is to get huge, you should do lower reps at higher weight, and for more toning you should do higher reps at lower weight. What you probably want is a combination of the two.

Also, if you do the same work out every time, your muscles can become accustomed to it, and it will be harder to get better. For this reason, it's better to vary your work out from time to time by changing exercizes and/or number of reps.

Also, if you workout a muscle group, it's important to work out it's opposing muscle group as well (e.g. if you do biceps, you need to do triceps as well). Not doing this will leave you imbalanced and injury prone.

[gvibes]

Jakethebake is smart. Listen.

I have some shoulder problems, so I don't bench, but I basically alternate

Day A:
deadlifts (I feel pretty comfortable pushing my max deadlifts, so I go to single rep failure)
pullups
dips
overhead presses (I do these standing, as I feel that it works my torso at the same time)

Day B:
Squats
stiff-legged deadlifts
dips
pullups


At least, I was doing that until I tweaked my knee playing basketball a couple weeks ago. I have problems with squats now. It actually feels like more of a quad thing, than a knee thing, but we'll see.

By the way, I just noticed for the first time today that if hot chick is waiting for the dip ...thing..., I can do quite a few more reps.

[Stuey]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, I just noticed for the first time today that if hot chick is waiting for the dip ...thing..., I can do quite a few more reps.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Jakethebake doesnt know what he is talking about

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[sublime]

I need a broader work out than this;

no, you dont.

you need to do this:

bench
squats
deads

add weight to the bar or reps every workout. anything else is just a semi waste of time.

[sublime]

your post is full of 'muscle myths'.

anybody interested in 'clean' bodybuilding, needs to read stuart mcroberts 'beyond brawn'. also the forums and articles at hardgainer (http://www.hardgainer.com) are awesome.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
I need a broader work out than this;

no, you dont.

you need to do this:

bench
squats
deads

add weight to the bar or reps every workout. anything else is just a semi waste of time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im sorry, but this is just sooo wrong. There is ALOT more to a workout program to build mass and stength than these 3 exersises. This isnt the 1950s. Sure, 3 great exersises, and if you could ONLY do 3, they would be the 3 to do, but you need to do much much more than just this.

[sublime]

but you need to do much much more than just this

like?

maybe add military presses and some rowing exercise, situps.

thats it.

[sublime]

This isnt the 1950s.

what does this have to do with anything? i am almost positive that weight training was more productive in the 50's than it is today. just because more people do it today, doesnt mean it is done right.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
but you need to do much much more than just this

like?

maybe add military presses and some rowing exercise, situps.

thats it.

[/ QUOTE ]

come on man, you gotta work each muscle. Like I said, this isnt the 50s, we arent working with a medicine ball.

You gotta work your shoulders. You also need to do more tricep specific exersises. And definately you need to work your biceps. You also wana work your forums, so you dont end up like way to many of the people in the gym who have big arms but little forums. Thats just lame. Like you said, abs. You also wanna work your traps and your lats. Calfs too.

Theres no reason you shouldnt be doing exersises for every muscle group if your goal is to be well rounded, and to have good symetry and mass.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
This isnt the 1950s.

what does this have to do with anything? i am almost positive that weight training was more productive in the 50's than it is today. just because more people do it today, doesnt mean it is done right.

[/ QUOTE ]

the amount of knowledge today about pyshiology and the way your body responds to weight training, is sooooooo much more evolved then it was back then. Hell, just look at the bodybuilders now, compared to the body builders then.

[sublime]

Theres no reason you shouldnt be doing exersises for every muscle group if your goal is to be well rounded, and to have good symetry and mass.

what muscle group is being neglected when you:
squat
deadlift
bench ????

add in miltary presses and some row work and you are getting every single muscle group in the body. the whole idea to getting bigger and stronger is progression.

[sublime]

Hell, just look at the bodybuilders now, compared to the body builders then.

cmon man, this has NOTHING to do with advanced education of exercise and EVERYTHING to do with the advances in chemistry.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Theres no reason you shouldnt be doing exersises for every muscle group if your goal is to be well rounded, and to have good symetry and mass.

what muscle group is being neglected when you:
squat
deadlift
bench ????



[/ QUOTE ]

Biceps big time. Most of the shoulder. Your traps. Your calfs. Your abs would be much better suited with a workout of their own, as would your forearms.


I just think it silly not to focus in on each musle in particular, there is no good reason not to. Our OP isnt limited by time, and wants to bulk up, not just improve general stregnth, he would be much better served by a more well rounded ruitine.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Hell, just look at the bodybuilders now, compared to the body builders then.

cmon man, this has NOTHING to do with advanced education of exercise and EVERYTHING to do with the advances in chemistry.

[/ QUOTE ]


not so. Yes alot of it has to do with a better understanding of nutirition and whatnot. But alot of it also has to do with a better understanding of actual working out.

[sublime]

You gotta work your shoulders. You also need to do more tricep specific exersises. And definately you need to work your biceps. You also wana work your forums, so you dont end up like way to many of the people in the gym who have big arms but little forums. Thats just lame. Like you said, abs. You also wanna work your traps and your lats. Calfs too.

this is overkill at its finest.

let me ask you a qustion. if i showed you a man who could:

squat : 500
dead : 400
bench press: 300

and NEVER ever, did one single curl or tricep extension or whatever, i can guarantee his arms would be about as big as genetically possible for him.

[sublime]

Biceps big time

ok, even though i disagree that your bi's are being neglected. if they wer, who cares? they take up some miniscule amount of muscle mass in your body. i hate to make a poker anology, but even caring about how much you can curl is akin to saying you play 'aces full of kings' better than anybody else. it just doesnt matter much.

Most of the shoulder. Your traps

i have deadlifted 300lbs for reps at one time. there is no way my traps were 'neglected'.

[sublime]

But alot of it also has to do with a better understanding of actual working out.

its just so not true though. this is what happened. bodybuilders statred becoming popular. as a resulty, people started asking how they got those massive physiques. the bodybuliders were more than happy to tell everyone that they worked out 3x a week and did 8 sets of this and that and 6 sets of bicep curls ans yada yada yada. which is fine for them, they are genetic freaks and can withstand the workload. also they are/were on drugs that enhances thier recovery ability. soon this nonsense became more popular than the old school way of lifting, and now you have people at thee gym, who despit working thier asses off cant understand why they dont grow.

[Alobar]

im not saying you wont get big doing this stuff, im saying you wont get as big, and you wont do it near as fast if you just do those 3 exersices. And I think your poker analogy is dead on. Sure in the whole game of poker AK is just one hand, but how often do you get AK? You get it frequently and its a big hand, and its also hard to play at times, so if you played it perfectly, it would be a boost to yur game.

Look at it like this, if those 3 exersises were all it takes to be as big as genetically possible, why do body builders do alot more than just those 3???

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
and now you have people at thee gym, who despit working thier asses off cant understand why they dont grow.

[/ QUOTE ]

most of them dont grow because they dont work out correctly. People dont understand its not the workout that makes you stronger, its the recovery. They also get locked into doing the same exersise for the same reps, and they keep doing it, becuase when the first started out they made big gains, so the think it should keep on that way. The body doesnt work that way tho, you have to do it in periodisation.

[sublime]

im not saying you wont get big doing this stuff, im saying you wont get as big, and you wont do it near as fast if you just do those 3 exersices.

ha, you are starting to see my point. i know it. ok, you already admitted that those are the 3 best excercises to do. so look at it this way, trhe typical person has like 100 energy cells (this is gay, but its best way to descible what i am thinking) wouldnt it make sense to use all 100 of those energy cells on the most productive exercixes available? of course it would. also those three exercise were a understatement. miltarty presses and rows are needed. so thats 5. THATS it. i will barf if i hear this kid is doing 'arm work'.

also, you will get bigger faster by just focsuing on the big three (plus the other two)

Look at it like this, if those 3 exersises were all it takes to be as big as genetically possible, why do body builders do alot more than just those 3???

because 'they' can. they are genetic freaks who also are juiced to the gills. asking a normal human to do anything colse to what they do in the gym is just ridiculous.

[sublime]

most of them dont grow because they dont work out correctly. People dont understand its not the workout that makes you stronger, its the recovery. They also get locked into doing the same exersise for the same reps, and they keep doing it, becuase when the first started out they made big gains, so the think it should keep on that way. The body doesnt work that way tho, you have to do it in periodisation.

they dont grow beacuse they

a) dont get enough rest (which is a byproduct of doing to many exercises)
b) spend to much time on gay exercises (curls/ extenstions etc) and not enough time on the big ones. progression is the key.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
im not saying you wont get big doing this stuff, im saying you wont get as big, and you wont do it near as fast if you just do those 3 exersices.

ha, you are starting to see my point. i know it. ok, you already admitted that those are the 3 best excercises to do. so look at it this way, trhe typical person has like 100 energy cells (this is gay, but its best way to descible what i am thinking) wouldnt it make sense to use all 100 of those energy cells on the most productive exercixes available? of course it would. also those three exercise were a understatement. miltarty presses and rows are needed. so thats 5. THATS it. i will barf if i hear this kid is doing 'arm work'.

also, you will get bigger faster by just focsuing on the big three (plus the other two)

Look at it like this, if those 3 exersises were all it takes to be as big as genetically possible, why do body builders do alot more than just those 3???

because 'they' can. they are genetic freaks who also are juiced to the gills. asking a normal human to do anything colse to what they do in the gym is just ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

see, you are already adding more exersises, so you see my point as well /images/graemlins/smile.gif

And come on man, you HAVE to work calves and forearms, simply because they are so hard to get to respond, and because you dont want to look stupid like so many people at gym do. big legs, but little calves, big arms, but little forearms.

and I still maintain that a bicep exersise is at the very least required as well.

[sublime]

big legs, but little calves, big arms, but little forearms.

if you are squatting and adding weight each workout there is no way your calves are gonna be neglected. same goes for your forearms and deadlifts.

i just point to the 500/400/300 guy. just get there and you will be big as possible (or close to it)

and I still maintain that a bicep exersise is at the very least required as well

we can agree to disagree /images/graemlins/smile.gif

btw, for the geeks who never make it out of OOT, post your WSOP seat win /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[dsm]

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[shayneon]

If you don't already - take vitamins every day and drink a protien shake before and after every workout. You will get noticeably better results. Good Luck.

[Uston]

And come on man, you HAVE to work calves and forearms, simply because they are so hard to get to respond, and because you dont want to look stupid like so many people at gym do. big legs, but little calves, big arms, but little forearms.

Forearms would be covered by heavy deadlifting, so long as you aren't using straps.

You're right about calves. There's nothing wrong with adding a few sets of standing or seated calf raises. At the very least you should spend ten minutes a week walking on a treadmill set at the highest incline.

Whoever said that everything should be covered by squats, deadlifts, and bench is on the right track, although why he would neglect chin-ups, which are every bit as important as bench, is a mystery. Certainly nothing candy-ass about doing dips or military press, either.

[Zoelef]

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/t/j/tjw224/ddr%20guys.JPG

[SCfuji]

do situps pushups and pullups (wide grip) five times a week.

then do the lifting that others have suggested:

bench, squats, deadlifts, i enjoy power cleans as well. but make sure you include olympic leg lifts so that you dont end up looking like a chicken and your body is nice and balanced.

[gvibes]

[ QUOTE ]
Forearms would be covered by heavy deadlifting, so long as you aren't using straps.


[/ QUOTE ]

No gloves either. Maybe chalk, if you have overactive sweat glands.

I outlined my workout earlier, and I think adding overhead presses, dips, and pullups to the "big three" will pretty much have everything covered.

Sort of anecdotal, but I haven't done curls in five years or so. Yesterday, I was holding on to some 45's, and I could curl those no problem. I'm not sure what that's from, as I can only do four or five pullups (I weigh a lot, like, 215 or so).

Calves are the only area that are marginally ignored (though show me someone who can deadlift 350 and squat 300 - around my current maxes - and I doubt he has small calves). I think the calves are less of an issue for me, because I'm a cyclist as well, which works out the calves quite nicely.

[tworooks]

haven't read it yet, but it looks good. check it out:
link (http://askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding_100/119_fitness_tip.html)

[youngin20]

yeah, you guys dont do cardio. thats dumb. you can bench 8 billion pounds, but you are still overweight according to the US Government.

[Blarg]

If you're not in good shape yet, stick to calisthenics and aerobics for a while, and do lots of stretching. It's good to be in reasonable general shape before you take up the strains of weightlifting. Partly so you don't injure yourself, and partly because that kind of shape matters a lot more than adding in bulk.

[lu_hawk]

you've been out of it for some time so you are a beginner at this point. i would do a full body work out 3-4x/week. something like:

squat 3x10
straight leg deadlift 2x8
calf 3x15
bench 3x8
standing military press 2x8
some sort of row 3x8
curls 2x8
weighted situps

do it in that order, there is a reason the leg stuff is first. eat good, preferably every 3-4 hours. try to get 150 grams of protein per day. remember that eating is as important as lifting. do this routine for a few months, you will be stronger and look better. after a few months you should switch to a split routine.

i haven't read the other posts but there is a fair chance you received some crappy advice so do what i say i am right.

also remember that things like the pyramid scheme that you mentioned in your post are insignificant. if you are coaching a poker player that has 40% VPIP and 60% WSD then you don't teach him about the game theory of bluffing, you teach him to fold. folding will add a lot to his win rate, game theory of bluffing adds so little that you should ignore it at that point. same thing with lifting, pyramid scheme and things like it = game theory. there is a point to it later on, but at this point the basics are what make the big difference.

[The Stranger]

My high school football off-season workouts went like this:

stretching
sit-ups
bench press
military press
leg press
power cleans
your choice on the dumbells
jump rope
200M sprints, jogging the rest of the lap back to the starting line

[banditbdl]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, you guys dont do cardio. thats dumb. you can bench 8 billion pounds, but you are still overweight according to the US Government.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are talking about Body Mass Index this is incorrect I believe. When explaining the BMI they acknowledge that it isn't accurate when using for Muscular types.

[Wayfare]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I need a broader work out than this;

[/ QUOTE ]

No you don't. That works everything. There's no reason to work all the smaller muscle groups by themselves. It's counterproductive.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've moved on from pot to crack I see?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I need a broader work out than this;

[/ QUOTE ]
No you don't. That works everything. There's no reason to work all the smaller muscle groups by themselves. It's counterproductive.

[/ QUOTE ]
You've moved on from pot to crack I see?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not really sure what this means since I don't smoke pot, but I'll continue to maintain that compound exercises that work the major muscle groups are the best way to build muscle. They also teach the muscles to work together, rather than isolation exercises that have the opposite result and negatively impact coordination. The smaller muscle groups are worked plenty when doing the large lifts and additional work frequently just leads to overwork. If you do work the smaller groups separately, you really shouldn't do more than a couple of sets.

Best book on strength training ever: The Strongest Shall Survive by Bill Starr (unfortunately out of print).