88 cooooooolcalldown

[milesdyson]

UTG+1 a little tight for me to want to raise this preflop, but that is about all I know, specifically. The table, as a whole, is pretty passive.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, SB calls.

<font color="brown">Gutshot, a weak BDFD, and my 2 outs to a set are worth something, too.</font>

Turn: (7.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, SB calls.

<font color="brown">Double gutted (a J not so hot), weak 4-flush.</font>

River: (11.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero...

<font color="brown">Hit the flush. Now what? I'm afraid that if I bet, CO will raise and I'll spend 2 BB to lose, whereas if I check and CO checks, I win but miss a value bet. If I check, CO could bet a hand I beat, SB/BB then may call. Really, I was like, "Good gracious. Ass is bodacious."</font>

[aK13]

With 4 players, I probably check/call this situation.

[Isura]

I don't think you can bet that river. And you should raise preflop even if UTG1 is tight. You will get cold-calls from loose players behind or get a chance to get this short-handed.

[Francis]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can bet that river. And you should raise preflop even if UTG1 is tight. You will get cold-calls from loose players behind or get a chance to get this short-handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it standard to raise w/88 in MP? I ask because most of the books say you limp w/PP's under 10..

Just curious. I hate playing middle pocket pairs; any insight appreciated.

thx

[Duerig]

I think this is a situation where only better hands than you will call your "value bet." I like the check/call line.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can bet that river. And you should raise preflop even if UTG1 is tight. You will get cold-calls from loose players behind or get a chance to get this short-handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it standard to raise w/88 in MP? I ask because most of the books say you limp w/PP's under 10..

Just curious. I hate playing middle pocket pairs; any insight appreciated.

thx

[/ QUOTE ]

Many people (esp. here) like to raise EP/MP with mid pocket pairs. I personally don't, though, but I think the EV is about the same both ways.

[Buckmulligan]

What about 3 betting the BB raise preflop?
As for the river, I am not sure; most players leap at the opportunity to bet first when a 4th flush card hits, and the fact that BB and UTG didn't indicates to me that they must be really weak as of now. If UTG, BB, or both seem to be the kind of players who will call 2 cold in the event that CO raises you, I would lean toward a bet, but if they are both tight, I would probably check this. Being raised by CO wouldn't be the worst thing ever as I think 1/3 of the time, even then, you call and show the best hand.

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can bet that river. And you should raise preflop even if UTG1 is tight. You will get cold-calls from loose players behind or get a chance to get this short-handed.

[/ QUOTE ]
It was 8-handed and likely to get 4 ways with a raise preflop. 88 has showdown strength unimproved, but I don't really think it's a big deal to get to the flop 5 or 6-way for one bet as opposed to 3 or 4-way for two.

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
What about 3 betting the BB raise preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? His raise could very well mean a pocket pair higher than mine, in which case I need to flop a set to win. A 3-bet here isn't folding anyone, and there aren't enough players in the pot to make it for value.

And let's say for analysis that SB and BB will never coldcall two on the river with a worse hand (this is very close to true).

[Buckmulligan]

[ QUOTE ]
Why? His raise could very well mean a pocket pair higher than mine, in which case I need to flop a set to win. A 3-bet here isn't folding anyone, and there aren't enough players in the pot to make it for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to fold anyone. 4 opponents may not be enough, you are right, but what about 5? Although he may have a higher pair, if he doesn't, with the other fodder in the pot a 3 bet (given you didn't raise first time around) could be for good value. This is all just speculation, and I am not sure how accurate it is.

[ QUOTE ]
And let's say for analysis that SB and BB will never coldcall two on the river with a worse hand (this is very close to true).

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I wouldn't bet. I think this idea is what the hand boils down to.

[xenthebrain]

I fold that on the flop. You have like 3 clean outs for the gutshot, the 2 eight's aren't good either, they give a onecardstraight and open some straight redraws, too.