Handreading from 2+2 table.

[Entity]

BB is a maniac apparently trying to stack off (despite the fact that he has 20BB in his stack).

Unfortunate 2+2er is playing normal poker from what I've seen. I'm a tad on the LAGGY side because 2+2ers are all being good kids and folding a lot. It doesn't help that the other table I'm playing right now is the 2+2 LAGfest at PunchItChew's pvt table.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with XX.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 :#A500AF(Unfortunate2+2er)/ 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 :#A500AF(Unfortunate2+2er)/ calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Unfortunate2+2er raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP2 folds, Unfortunate2+2er calls, BB calls.

Turn: (14.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Unfortunate2+2er calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Unfortunate2+2er calls, BB calls.

River: (26.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Unfortunate2+2er folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 30.75 BB

What do I have? What does unfortunate 2+2er have?

[wyoak]

Hero: TT
Unfortunate 2+2er: actually i'm revising, I don't think he has QQ....I'm stumped....maybe AJs

[btspider]

unfortunate got trapped chasing a gutshot with TPTK on the turn..
AQs

Hero could have a wide range here making use of the reads and unfortunate's passive turn play. i don't think i can narrow it down further than:
most likely: 88, TT
second likely: AK, AT, A8s
third likely: AA*

If Hero has AQ/AJ, then Hero is a sexy beast. (but i think you'd smooth-call the turn 3-bet to raise the river if your goal is to fold unfortunate's likely hand)

* I think AA raises the flop. With one Ace left in the deck, Hero should be more concerned with not giving unfortunate odds to call with JJ-KK...

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
unfortunate got trapped chasing a gutshot with TPTK on the turn..
AQs

Hero could have a wide range here making use of the reads and unfortunate's passive turn play. i don't think i can narrow it down further than:
most likely: 88, TT
second likely: AK, AT, A8s
third likely: AA*

If Hero has AQ/AJ, then Hero is a sexy beast. (but i think you'd smooth-call the turn 3-bet to raise the river if your goal is to fold unfortunate's likely hand)

* I think AA raises the flop. With one Ace left in the deck, Hero should be more concerned with not giving unfortunate odds to call with JJ-KK...

[/ QUOTE ]

Boy...so QJ isn't likely at all?

[toss]

You got a set, I think 88. Villain has an AK. Too bad for him!

[wyoak]

[ QUOTE ]
Boy...so QJ isn't likely at all?

[/ QUOTE ]
damn double gutshot straight draws. QJs would make sense here too.

[Disconnected]

OK, I'll try. Based on your reads (including yourself), I think you've got TT or ATs (you said you're being a little laggy). I would guess that if the unfortunate 2+2'er is playing by the book, he's got QQ.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I'll try. Based on your reads (including yourself), I think you've got TT or ATs (you said you're being a little laggy). I would guess that if the unfortunate 2+2'er is playing by the book, he's got QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would QQ raise this flop?

[Disconnected]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would QQ raise this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, don't remember what I was thinking, I'm second-guessing based on your question, now. But, I'll try to make a case for it, anyway. If he has the same read on BB as you and doesn't respect BB's aggression, then once you and MP2 only call, he's counting on a 3-bet from BB, hoping you and MP2 fold, and he can go HU against BB.

If he did have QQ, would the flop raise make sense at all?

I'm trying to put him on a hand that's premium based on his 3-bet pre-flop, but poor enough to slow down on the turn and fold the river (admittedly using all streets to put him on something on the flop). If he has KK, AA, or AK, there's no way he should fold on the river.

[DocMartin]

The title of this post is an oxymoron. I watched the 2+2 table last night for a bit and there is no such thing as hand reading. Looked like fun though /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
Boy...so QJ isn't likely at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah of course.. you know i have problems seeing double gutters..

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
If he has KK, AA, or AK, there's no way he should fold on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

AA and KK are close. AK he should fold.

Rob

[imported_Reaction]

Edit = Grunched...

Preflop:

MP1 LAG Hero: BOB, BSB, Monster, BP, maybe LSB &amp; LOB
MP2: Specualtive hand
MP3: Monster, BP, BSB, AKo &amp; maybe AQo
BB: Monster, BP, AK, AQs

Flop:
BB: AA, AK, AQ, TT,
LAG Hero: KQ, KJ, QJ , TT, 88, AA, KK, QQ,
MP2: Speculative
MP3: AA, AK maybe AQs, TT

BB: AK, AQ, AA
LAG Hero: KQ, KJ, QJ , AA
MP3: AA, AK maybe AQs

Turn:

BB: AK, TT, AA
LAG Hero: QJ, KK
MP3: AQs,

River:

BB: AA, TT
LAG Hero: QJ,
MP3: AQs,

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Boy...so QJ isn't likely at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah of course.. you know i have problems seeing double gutters..

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you really need to get over that.

I had QJ and the 2+2er had AK. I think he should fold the turn but it's close. He's going to have 4 outs some of the time but less than 4 often and will have to call 4 bets on this turn frequently.

Rob

[DavidC]

I read some of this yesterday, and then went to bed.

I was totally surprised by the double-belly buster. I should add that to the list of things I need to improve. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think a set is the only hand that could cap this turn without a straight.

Edit: I'm assuming entity has qj from other posts that I've read in this thread.

The more I think about the way Entity played this hand, though, the more I like it. He knows that his hand has stealth value, but that it still has correct odds for value. He's putting the 2+2er on AA, and so he's telling the world that his hand was defined on the flop.

With this false infformation, 2+2er will be temped to cap the river with his top set vs 88 or tt.

I guess 2+2er has AA.

This didn't hit me til I woke up this morning. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Except... Could 2+2er really lay down AA? Maybe not.

So I guess I'm going to keep with the fine tradition of being completely wrong in my reads. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

--Dave.

[Disconnected]

I saw the outcome of this hand, I understand why AK should be folding (thanks).

AA should be folding easily on a 2+2 table, since then you could make a post: "Great laydown -- top set (aces)" /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[itsmesteve]

Hero has Q/images/graemlins/spade.gifJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif, unfortunate 2+2er has AK
BB has some weak ace