winning online

[cove1]

thanks in advance...ive been playing poker since november..ive studied many books..videos...live poker and tournaments...actually placed 7th in a tournament sponsered by DD tournament poker software...

whats the deal with trying to win with online play.... ive been playing 2/4 holdem...try everything but theres always the people who just stay to the end and draw lucky.. is online play faulty from the get go....should i give it up for live poker only...any ideas...really need some help... <font color="blue"> </font>

[the_rookie]

Read more books. I'm confident at least one will talk about the variance in the game and why bad beats are good for you.

[New York Jet]

Try posting some hands in the Small Stakes Hold'em Forum. If you are consistantly losing, you are either the unluckiest player in the world or are making mistakes at the table. I would lean towards the second of the two.

P.S. The online site you describe sounds great...
[ QUOTE ]
always the people who just stay to the end and draw lucky

[/ QUOTE ]
Where do I sign up?

P.P.S.
You are new to the site, so welcome aboard. This link (http://nyjet_twoplustwo.home.mindspring.com/Posting.htm) will provide you with good information on posting.

[johnc]

There are distinct differences between online &amp; live. Live has more people orientated information such as visable signs of strength or weakness, confidence or aprehension, and many, many others. However, online, though it doesn't offer the advantages of human contact does give a player a whole lot of really detailed player data via such software as Poker Tracker that I wish had when I play live. Take your pick, each has positives and negatives but make no mistake whether you play live or online you will get sucked out on the river by some fool with their longshot, that I guarantee!

[Sincere]

[ QUOTE ]
ive been playing poker since november

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
try everything but theres always the people who just stay to the end and draw lucky

[/ QUOTE ]

See my posts and TStones posts in the "Best Poker Advice" thread.

Not to mention that you are playing way to high for someone who has only played for 5 months.

[bpb]

Yeah, here's an idea.

People who get their rocks off by posting crap threads like this are pathetic.

[TripleH68]

[ QUOTE ]
...ive been playing poker since november...

[/ QUOTE ]

Others will say the same I am sure, but I will say it also. Five months is a very short amount of time. Keep at it. Drop down if you must.

[Schwartzy61]

People do it, there is proof all over the place. If you are losing money at poker in an amount greater than the rake that means the people you are playing with are winning money from you, so that should be proof right there you can win playing online.

Are these opponents truly getting lucky? Or is it a situation where you have found it hard to push draws out of hands. Or you aren't quite getting enough out of your winning hands and thus aren't able to stay about ".500" in your winnings.

There are two ways to go about fixing this issue. One is to continue playing poker and gaining valuable experience while hemorraghing (SP? on that one) money. You will still have to be able to honestly evaluate your play which will be difficult without any guides but if you worked hard enough and were diligent enough in your attention to detail could probably work after several years and many thousands of losses.

The other option is to buy several books including but not limited to and in no particular order: Small Stakes Hold'em (SSHE), Theory of Poker (ToP), Internet Texas Hold'em (ITH), Winning Low Limit Hold'em (WLLHE). Many players on this board don't necessarily recommend anything other than something published by 2+2 but you have to understand your opponents and you have to play a style that fits your personality and reading all of the above books will give you a wide array of plays and styles to not only try but recognize in other players. Those are probably the most popular books that will apply to the limits you are playing. The cost of those books will be around $100 and will allow you to win or at least break even while gaining the valuable hands on experience of actual play. If you are truly serious about being a winning player and choose to fix leaks in your game you can eventually be a solid long term winner even online.

[Schwartzy61]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, here's an idea.

People who get their rocks off by posting crap threads like this are pathetic.

[/ QUOTE ]

People who are perturbed by a substandard thread and then waste the time to post an unproductive reply are the truly pathetic ones.

(Although by posting this I am calling myself out as one of hte pathetic ones, /images/graemlins/wink.gif, but hey I at least posted a productive reply above to the OP's question)

[cove1]

Iam sorry if the post offended everyone...just looking for some honest advice..thanks to those of you that responded with some thought...no bother to read my post anymore or respond ...

[Megladon]

I've heard from one of my friends that did the online poker that the longshots always seem to draw out. He could have 3 of a kind on the flop, and raise as much as he could (limit holdem) but these people would normaly keep calling and draw out to a straight or flush. After a month of that he said screw it and went to live poker, now he brings in 2-5 grand a week, i doubt he'll play online again. (this is why i am here, for even 1/5th of what he's getting)

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard from one of my friends that did the online poker that the longshots always seem to draw out. He could have 3 of a kind on the flop, and raise as much as he could (limit holdem) but these people would normaly keep calling and draw out to a straight or flush. After a month of that he said screw it and went to live poker, now he brings in 2-5 grand a week, i doubt he'll play online again. (this is why i am here, for even 1/5th of what he's getting)

[/ QUOTE ]
It really boggles my mind how many people think suckouts are bad. How they think they could be huge winners if their opponents played more sensibly.

[Shoe]

Move up the limits. When you play against better players you do do better.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard from one of my friends that did the online poker that the longshots always seem to draw out. He could have 3 of a kind on the flop, and raise as much as he could (limit holdem) but these people would normaly keep calling and draw out to a straight or flush. After a month of that he said screw it and went to live poker, now he brings in 2-5 grand a week, i doubt he'll play online again. (this is why i am here, for even 1/5th of what he's getting)

[/ QUOTE ]

Your friend doesn't understand limit hold 'em. I'm not being mean... just honest.

Read Ed Miller's "Getting Started in Hold 'Em."

[ianlippert]

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard from one of my friends that did the online poker that the longshots always seem to draw out. He could have 3 of a kind on the flop, and raise as much as he could (limit holdem) but these people would normaly keep calling and draw out to a straight or flush. After a month of that he said screw it and went to live poker, now he brings in 2-5 grand a week, i doubt he'll play online again. (this is why i am here, for even 1/5th of what he's getting)

[/ QUOTE ]

Does your friend play live limit? There really isnt any difference, its the same game. All that matters is the number of ppl that are trying to draw out on their long shots. To say that these ppl cant be beaten is rediculous. If you cant beat play money styled games (ie, extremly loose) you arent a good poker player.

[ASmith84]

Theres going to be people wanting to call you to the river in both casinos and online. Im sure even more in the casino because they drove way out there and play less hands per hour, there just looking for action after awhile and wont drop their "hope hands"(inside straights).

[tworooks]

[ QUOTE ]
Others will say the same I am sure, but I will say it also. Five months is a very short amount of time. Keep at it. Drop down if you must.

[/ QUOTE ]

but if he drops down then there will be more people staying in until the river trying to draw out on him, therefore making the game even harder to make a profit...

[JohnnyHumongous]

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard from one of my friends that did the online poker that the longshots always seem to draw out. He could have 3 of a kind on the flop, and raise as much as he could (limit holdem) but these people would normaly keep calling and draw out to a straight or flush. After a month of that he said screw it and went to live poker, now he brings in 2-5 grand a week, i doubt he'll play online again. (this is why i am here, for even 1/5th of what he's getting)

[/ QUOTE ]

My theory is your friend tried B&amp;M poker once and made $2K maybe over a couple sessions, and now he is "making $2 to 5 grand per week". It's doubtful that this has happened multiple times given the story just related.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
After a month of that he said screw it and went to live poker, now he brings in 2-5 grand a week, i doubt he'll play online again.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are really naive if you think that this friend makes 2-5 grand per week playing live poker.

[Kevin K.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After a month of that he said screw it and went to live poker, now he brings in 2-5 grand a week, i doubt he'll play online again.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are really naive if you think that this friend makes 2-5 grand per week playing live poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

And more naive if you think a bunch of people here will believe you.

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Why is it so hard to belive that someone can make a lot of money playing live poker? I know someone who takes in more that that a night. Im not trying to be a douche or a sckeptic, im just wondering why you dont think it is possible that his friend could make that much?

[Sunshine]

If you are like me, then when you play live, you rely on reading people. When you play on-line, you can only go on cards and someone's hand history (PT). Add to this the fact that more hands get dealt on-line per hour, and those small leaks add up faster and can't be compensated for in the same way a live game can (making good reads).

I worked on eliminating some of my starting hands that were't profitable (PT can help to determine that) and concentrated on my post-flop play and have turned on-line gambling into a profitable hobby.

[Sunshine]

tworooks, when is the grand-opening of your casino?

[Kevin K.]

I never said it wasn't possible to make that much or more playing live poker. Taking the 2-5k a week in context with the rest of the post, however, makes that claim sound ridiculous.

Another "Online is fixed, I make huge money at the casino" story.

[darydarling]

[ QUOTE ]
I never said it wasn't possible to make that much or more playing live poker. Taking the 2-5k a week in context with the rest of the post, however, makes that claim sound ridiculous.

Another "Online is fixed, I make huge money at the casino" story.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't take it as "online is fixed," but that he's found a game he could beat.

Anyway my take on this. I too have trouble beating the $1/$2 online at Party Poker. I do not know why, but I will die trying to figure it out.
I do well live, I'm running bad here lately, but overall am a winning player.
Someone has already mentioned it, and it's something that I think is wrong with my game. There are some small leaks that aren't quite noticeable in my live game but are magnified because of the sheer number of hands you play online which is only magnified even more when I attempt to multi-table.
So I've cut down to 2 tables and am doing better but still having some troubles maintaining a win rate above .77/100bb.

So step back, get your PT fired up and play only one or two tables and find out what it is exactly that you're doing wrong.
Maybe eliminate some starting hands as some have mentioned. Remember Hold - Em is agame about position so take a look at those hands specifically in your EP and MP and find out if you're doing more calling rather than betting, raising or even folding.
Good luck.

[primate]

[ QUOTE ]
Read more books. I'm confident at least one will talk about the variance in the game and why bad beats are good for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are bad beats good for you?

[WhiteWolf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Read more books. I'm confident at least one will talk about the variance in the game and why bad beats are good for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are bad beats good for you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because, by definition, a bad beat happens when you opponent is playing when he has the worst of it... in other words, he made a mistake. Of course, if you're in the game to make money, you want to play against players that make mistakes.

Mike Caro has a nice audio clip on this here (http://www.pokerpages.com/media/mc-pp-ppbroadcast11whyopponets.asx)