Just give Rich Harden the Cy Young right now.

[ceyoung]

2-0
ERA 0.44
WHIP 0.98
BAA 2.03
K/9 9.30

he's been lights out. the only run scored against him was a guy he left on base that justin duchscherer let in.

[Dead]

Nice sample size.

[ceyoung]

include the end of last year after the all-star break and he's 14-2

[istewart]

Talking baseball stats in April is gay.

[tdarko]

he did this his rookie year too and fizzled after about 6-7 games. he's got great stuff, i hope he keeps it up cause he is fun to watch when throwing well.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice sample size.

[/ QUOTE ]

The really pathetic thing is, it's not even the best ERA. It's not like he's way out in front of everyone else or anything even given the small sample size. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
ERA 0.44
WHIP 0.98

[/ QUOTE ]

The luck...

[istewart]

Change your goddamn avatar jake.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
The really pathetic thing is, it's not even the best ERA. It's not like he's way out in front of everyone else or anything even given the small sample size.

[/ QUOTE ]
its best in the A.L. and tied for 2nd in the MLB (best is clemens at 0.43--compared to his 0.44).

yeah its the beginning of the season but these are great numbers any time.

[Dead]

This is on par with my Dontrelle Willis joke thread.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah its the beginning of the season but these are great numbers any time.

[/ QUOTE ]

No arguing that. But the OP made it sound like he's just blowing everyone else away. He's not. That was my point.

[Jack of Arcades]

Santana's been better, if unlucky.

K/9: 13.32
BB/9: .72.

Johan's been giving up a lot of bloops that his defense just isn't getting to.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
This is on par with my Dontrelle Willis joke thread.

[/ QUOTE ]
baseball is a game with less variance than poker, if you can't catch up to a 94MPH heater then you will NEVER HIT, if you can't have command of 3 pitches you will NEVER BE ABLE TO PITCH whereas i could go heads up against ivey and catch a great run or get completely lucky and bust him so talking sample size makes you sound like some douchebag that can't give credit to other people's accomplishments.

of course nobody will have a .43-.44 ERA at the end of the year but just don't be THAT GUY that pisses in everyone's cereal.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
Santana's been better, if unlucky.

K/9: 13.32
BB/9: .72.

Johan's been giving up a lot of bloops that his defense just isn't getting to.




[/ QUOTE ]
yeah he really has been cutting everyone up. still can't get over how many K's he gets with that change piece UP in the zone.

[Dead]

If you want to look at an amazing season for a pitcher(besides Santana's), then look at Mariano's last year.

For a large chunk of the season his ERA was under 1.

And Mariano relies on the cutter with an occasional split thrown in.

[ceyoung]

yah. i know its just like predicting that dimitri young would have had 486HRs after opening day. but watching the games harden has been unhittable.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
yah. i know its just like predicting that dimitri young would have had 486HRs after opening day. but watching the games harden has been unhittable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that why he's giving up nearly a hit/walk in every IP? Seriously, he's lucky

[kerssens]

I was at the game last night and I must say that I was impressed. He got ahead of almost every hitter and had the M's hitter completely off balance. Two of the hits against him were courtesy of the scorer (Boone, Ichiro).

[nolanfan34]

Harden is good.

Last night against the M's, the M's had two guys on, and two outs. Jeremy Reed was up. Harden threw him two strikes, the second of which was a nice 95 MPH fastball. The next pitch was some sort of a slider that went about 65. Reed had no chance at it.

I don't think he'll win it this year, but if he stays healthy, the sky is the limit.

[ceyoung]

i saw him play with the rivercats in AAA. and he was blowing 98mph gas past people in the 8th inning. it was amazing.

[offTopic]

He's pitched well, but it's April 22. I wouldn't even give him the Curt Young.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Change your goddamn avatar Dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dead's is stupider.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
baseball is a game with less variance than poker, if you can't catch up to a 94MPH heater then you will NEVER HIT, if you can't have command of 3 pitches you will NEVER BE ABLE TO PITCH

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true to a certain extent, but when we're talking about baseball, we're talking about a small subset of the top 1000 or so players where the differences in talent levels are much smaller than you and Ivey. Variance is a huge part of baseball, and sample size is a very important concept in analysing anyone's statistics.

[tdarko]

wow mariano is a closer, waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy different. lets not get started with this crap, yes mariano is great the end.

plus i was using the "command of 3 pitches" in reference to your poker terminology thrown into a game that it doesn't apply. yes baseball has a lot of luck in it but sample size does not come into factor in a sport in which if you don't have the skill to execute given task then luck will then play no factor.

secondly mariano is a freak and one of maybe a couple pitchers ever to dominate with less than 3 pitches. when i say less than 3 pitches and "command" of 3 pitches i don't mean that you have to have 3 unbelievable pitches but that you have the ability to throw strikes in most counts at any time.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
yes baseball has a lot of luck in it but sample size does not come into factor in a sport in which if you don't have the skill to execute given task then luck will then play no factor.

[/ QUOTE ]

But we are talking about the top 1000 players in baseball, sometimes we're only talking about the top 10 pitchers in baseball. Many times the difference in value will be nothing more than simple variance (Randy Johnson vs. Ben Sheets vs. Johan Santana last year, for example).

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
This is true to a certain extent, but when we're talking about baseball, we're talking about a small subset of the top 1000 or so players where the differences in talent levels are much smaller than you and Ivey. Variance is a huge part of baseball, and sample size is a very important concept in analysing anyone's statistics.




[/ QUOTE ]
this is 100% correct.

the way Dead was using sample size to small comparing baseball to poker is wrong though.

i am not saying poker doesn't have skill and baseball doesn't have luck b/c both do, i am simply saying that in the BIG LEAGUES if you have under a 1 ERA and we are at the end of the first month of the season then that is surpassed variance and said player is in the category as dominating. the variance will come into play in random games throughout the season so of course harden, clemens, and myers won't continue this pace but to not give credit is ignorant.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that why he's giving up nearly a hit/walk in every IP? Seriously, he's lucky

[/ QUOTE ]
lucky? maybe. i have seen a few of these games and he has made some big pitches when he needed to, this is a quality that makes him even more valuable. harden is a power pitcher (only MLB starter last year to AVG 95MPH with his fastball) so walks are going to especially with a young power pitcher and so are hits because he challenges hitters and doesn't pick at the plate, but it is also his incredible stuff that gets him out of jams.

he can't continue this but to call him lucky is questionable.

[ceyoung]

i thought a WHIP under 1 was considered solid?

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice sample size.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree with you, if these were Mussina's stats we'd have to listen to you crowing away about how dominant he was.

[tdarko]

i am talking about rich harden being lucky (variance). if you get big league hitters out time and time again and make big pitches then you are not lucky. big league hitters WILL make you pay when you miss.

i just get sick of people that don't have a clue trying to downplay people's accomplishments, i guess i am just not so much of a hater like others.

you have been dead on though jack.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is that why he's giving up nearly a hit/walk in every IP? Seriously, he's lucky

[/ QUOTE ]
lucky? maybe. i have seen a few of these games and he has made some big pitches when he needed to, this is a quality that makes him even more valuable. harden is a power pitcher (only MLB starter last year to AVG 95MPH with his fastball) so walks are going to especially with a young power pitcher and so are hits because he challenges hitters and doesn't pick at the plate, but it is also his incredible stuff that gets him out of jams.

he can't continue this but to call him lucky is questionable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was making a reference to how his WHIP is double his ERA. That's lucky. Speaking of luck, did anyone see El Duque's last start? I had him started in my league for the game /images/graemlins/grin.gif Something like 1.9 WHIP to 2.5 ERA. Is there any definitive formula that relates WHIP, ERA and Ks together?

[ceyoung]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yeah its the beginning of the season but these are great numbers any time.

[/ QUOTE ]

No arguing that. But the OP made it sound like he's just blowing everyone else away. He's not. That was my point.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you look at the AL stats the next best ERA is 1.37. and there are a total of four pitchers with an ERA under 2. i think we can all agree his low ERA means more in the AL.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
am simply saying that in the BIG LEAGUES if you have under a 1 ERA and we are at the end of the first month of the season then that is surpassed variance and said player is in the category as dominating.

[/ QUOTE ]

To put it plainly, you're wrong.

Harden has only pitched in 20.1 innings. While he has been very good, yes, he has been nowhere as good as his .44 ERA indicates and this is due mostly to the amazing defense behind him and, yes, luck.

Look, I'm not trying to piss in anyone's cheerios or anything. I'm just trying to assess and evaluate the truth. That's what sabermetrics is - a search for the truth. And the truth is, variance has played a huge part in Harden's .44 ERA.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
i thought a WHIP under 1 was considered solid?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is, but if you have a .95 WHIP and a .45 ERA, thats lucky.

[Jack of Arcades]

FIP, dERA, and ERC use Ks, BBs, and HRs to make an ERA-like stat that usually is a better predictor of a pitcher's ERA going forward than their current ERA.

[Vince Young]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The really pathetic thing is, it's not even the best ERA. It's not like he's way out in front of everyone else or anything even given the small sample size.

[/ QUOTE ]
its best in the A.L. and tied for 2nd in the MLB (best is clemens at 0.43--compared to his 0.44).

yeah its the beginning of the season but these are great numbers any time.

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm, Mark Prior is 2-0 with a 0.00 ERA.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
FIP, dERA, and ERC use Ks, BBs, and HRs to make an ERA-like stat that usually is a better predictor of a pitcher's ERA going forward than their current ERA.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are FIP, dERA and ERC?

[Jack of Arcades]

Mark Prior would not qualify for the ERA title (only 13 IP) if the season ended today.

[htc1278]

Is the OP willing to take bets on his claim that Harden will win the AL Cy Young?

Other AL "Cy Young Candidates":
Rodrigo Lopez (28 1/3 IP, 2-1, 23 K's, 1.9 ERA, 1.2 WHIP)
Pedro Astacio (22 IP, 1-1, 15 K's, 1.6 ERA, .9 WHIP)
Tim Wakefield (19 2/3 IP, 2-0. 14 K's, 1.37 ERA, .9 WHIP)
That's some stiff competition for Harden.

NL "Cy Young Candidates":
Jake Peavy (20 2/3 IP, 2-0, 26 K's, 1.3 ERA, .97 WHIP)
Derek Lowe (28 1/3 IP, 1-1, 17 K's, 1.27 ERA, .99 WHIP)
Mike Hampton (22 IP, 1-0, 5 K's, .82 ERA, 1 WHIP)
Brett Myers (20 1/3 IP, 1-0, 20 K's, .44 ERA, .79 WHIP)
John Patterson (21 IP, 1-1, 17 K's, .86 ERA, .76 WHIP)
Josh Beckett (27 IP, 3-1, 30 K's, 1 ERA, .93 WHIP)
Roger Clemens (21 IP, 1-0, 26 K's, .43 ERA, .67 WHIP)
Tim Hudson (22 IP, 1-0, 17 K's, .82 ERA, .96 WHIP)
Dontrelle Willis (24 IP, 3-0, 14 K's, 1.125 ERA, .67 WHIP)

I'm pretty sure Patterson or Myers will win it in the NL--their stats are just TOO good which proves how dominant they are...

There is a good amount of variance in baseball. Look at Batting Average as an example (or a pitcher's BAA on balls hit in play). Where the defenders are positioned relative to the pitch thrown plays a role. The defensive abilities of the fielders plays a role. The weather plays a role. There are a lot of variables that alter baseball stats. Sample size is significant. I'm not trying to diminish they're achievements but rather to point out that it's too early in the season to hand someone the Cy Young (I've neglected to add relief pitcher's stats because my list would be obscenely long--Andy freakin' Sisco has an ERA of 1 and more than 1K/IP)...Who has he pitched against and where? Has he pitched in pitcher's stadiums? Has he pitched in a hitter's ballpark yet? Too much to consider without my brain blowing up...

[Jack of Arcades]

dERA = Defense Independent Pitching Statistics ERA invented by Voros McCracken (works for the Red Sox)
ERC = Component ERA invented by Bill James (works for the Red Sox)
FIP, I think, was invented by Tangotiger but I'm not sure. It's not quite like the other two as it doesn't calibrate the statistic to be on the same scale as ERA. Look around for it.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
To put it plainly, you're wrong.

Harden has only pitched in 20.1 innings. While he has been very good, yes, he has been nowhere as good as his .44 ERA indicates and this is due mostly to the amazing defense behind him and, yes, luck.

Look, I'm not trying to piss in anyone's cheerios or anything. I'm just trying to assess and evaluate the truth. That's what sabermetrics is - a search for the truth. And the truth is, variance has played a huge part in Harden's .44 ERA.

[/ QUOTE ]
i understand what you are saying and i respect it too. i guess statisticians and players never agree on anything /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

i just know that his stuff is electric and i have watched him pitch his ass off and show guts out there so it gets under my skin when people easily dismiss him b/c of a box score.

last year i pitched in a game and had given up 2 runs through 6 innings and was cruising. in the seventh inning i got the first out then hit the next batter. with a man on the next hitter singles and then with a man on 1st and 2nd i give up an infield single. i strike out the next guy to make two outs and our pitching coach pulls me and then our reliever gave up a grandslam to the next guy and 3 runs were takcked on to my box score. so now the box score says 6 2/3 5 ER instead of possibly 2 ER and all my friends and family call me up wondering WHAT HAPPENED? you cant always completely base your opinions of a person on a single stat.

[ceyoung]

ill take the bet that rich harden finishes higher in the voting that tim wakefield.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
It is, but if you have a .95 WHIP and a .45 ERA, thats lucky.




[/ QUOTE ]
explain this to me (you too jack), if brandon webb goes out and walks 3 batters in an inning and then strikes out the next 3 then his whip sucks but his ERA is great, so how is this lucky??

i know brandon and he would tell me his frustrations about peter gammons always dogging him b/c his WHIP is always terrbile. brandon's complaint is, "i am a sinker ball pitcher so i am going to walk guys and i am going to give up some tweener hits but i am also going to get a ton of double plays and a nice share of K's."

i just don't see how bad WHIP=lucky. a pitcher can go out and every inning walk or give up a hit to fill the bases and if he makes big pitches to get out of the inning then that is NOT LUCKY.

[Jack of Arcades]

I've watched Harden pitch, I know how well he throws and how foolish he makes hitters. This is reflected in his strikeout total.

I also know he's not a pitching deity and his performance in no way indicates that he should have a .44 ERA. There isn't anything going on "beyond the stats" here except randomness. That's just the way it is.

[Vince Young]

How many would it take then?

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is, but if you have a .95 WHIP and a .45 ERA, thats lucky.




[/ QUOTE ]
explain this to me (you too jack), if brandon webb goes out and walks 3 batters in an inning and then strikes out the next 3 then his whip sucks but his ERA is great, so how is this lucky??

i know brandon and he would tell me his frustrations about peter gammons always dogging him b/c his WHIP is always terrbile. brandon's complaint is, "i am a sinker ball pitcher so i am going to walk guys and i am going to give up some tweener hits but i am also going to get a ton of double plays and a nice share of K's."

i just don't see how bad WHIP=lucky. a pitcher can go out and every inning walk or give up a hit to fill the bases and if he makes big pitches to get out of the inning then that is NOT LUCKY.

[/ QUOTE ]

if whip = 1, that means that each batter would have 1 in 4 chance of walk or hit. factor in slugging, k's and varience and you have your answer

[Rick Diesel]

[ QUOTE ]
include the end of last year after the all-star break and he's 14-2

[/ QUOTE ]

And what is Johan Santana's record?

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
if brandon webb goes out and walks 3 batters in an inning and then strikes out the next 3 then his whip sucks but his ERA is great, so how is this lucky??

[/ QUOTE ]

Because players who have a 1:1 K/BB ratio don't have sucess in the major leagues. We're talking about a large sample size here, but players who walk a lot of batters don't succeed unless they

BTW, I don't put a lot of stock in WHIP because it relies too heavily in the defense behind you. One of the best ways to evaluate any pitcher is to look at their K-rates and BB-rates, because that's what the hitter controls amost more than anything.

Let's look at Randy Johnson. He was a very exciting young pitcher but he wasn't amazing. He took off in 1993, though, why?

1992: 10.3 K/9, 6.2 BB/9, 3.77 ERA
1993: 10.9 K/9, 3.5 BB/9, 3.24 ERA (and considering expansion, the 3.24 ERA is even more impressive)

Let's look at your boy Brandon (who got robbed of ROY, btw)

2003: 8.6 K/9, 3.4 BB/9, 2.84 ERA
2004: 7.1 K/9, 5.1 BB/9, 3.59 ERA

If you look at a list of the best pitchers post WWII, almost always the players have high K-rates and low BB-rates.

[Jack of Arcades]

16 (1 IP per game played)

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
if whip = 1, that means that each batter would have 1 in 4 chance of walk or hit. factor in slugging, k's and varience and you have your answer

[/ QUOTE ]
you didn't answer my question. WHIP=walks/hits per inning pitched correct? so if a pitcher has good enough stuff to pitch out of jams then how is that lucky. an opposing batting avg can be .300 for a pitcher and he can still have a great ERA without being lucky, its been done.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if brandon webb goes out and walks 3 batters in an inning and then strikes out the next 3 then his whip sucks but his ERA is great, so how is this lucky??

[/ QUOTE ]

Because players who have a 1:1 K/BB ratio don't have sucess in the major leagues. We're talking about a large sample size here, but players who walk a lot of batters don't succeed unless they

BTW, I don't put a lot of stock in WHIP because it relies too heavily in the defense behind you. One of the best ways to evaluate any pitcher is to look at their K-rates and BB-rates, because that's what the hitter controls amost more than anything.

Let's look at Randy Johnson. He was a very exciting young pitcher but he wasn't amazing. He took off in 1993, though, why?

1992: 10.3 K/9, 6.2 BB/9, 3.77 ERA
1993: 10.9 K/9, 3.5 BB/9, 3.24 ERA (and considering expansion, the 3.24 ERA is even more impressive)

Let's look at your boy Brandon (who got robbed of ROY, btw)

2003: 8.6 K/9, 3.4 BB/9, 2.84 ERA
2004: 7.1 K/9, 5.1 BB/9, 3.59 ERA

If you look at a list of the best pitchers post WWII, almost always the players have high K-rates and low BB-rates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you find these stats? J/ curious because I want to know about these big pools of data.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's look at your boy Brandon (who got robbed of ROY, btw)

2003: 8.6 K/9, 3.4 BB/9, 2.84 ERA
2004: 7.1 K/9, 5.1 BB/9, 3.59 ERA



[/ QUOTE ]
haha this made me laugh a little, i think he got robbed too but i am also bias.

those numbers ballooning a little last year had to do with the team he was on, his defense hurt him so much and he was having to pitch around guys to set up the double play so often that his BB's went up. yes he didn't have as good of a year but nobody would have the same NUMBERS as he did the year before on that team.

if you ask his pitching coach he will tell you he though webby was a better pitcher in 04'.

[Jack of Arcades]

www.baseball-reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com) - K/9 and B/9 are calculated myself on excel (same calculation as ERA).

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if whip = 1, that means that each batter would have 1 in 4 chance of walk or hit. factor in slugging, k's and varience and you have your answer

[/ QUOTE ]
you didn't answer my question. WHIP=walks/hits per inning pitched correct? so if a pitcher has good enough stuff to pitch out of jams then how is that lucky. an opposing batting avg can be .300 for a pitcher and he can still have a great ERA without being lucky, its been done.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a pitcher has good enough stuff to get out of jams, then why would he be there in the 1st place?

But seriously, against a player who will have a WHIP of 1 (just pretend errors don't exsist and scoring is standard), then there is a 1/4 chance of a hitter getting on base. If you throw in slugging then the average AB will yield about .4 bases. Then you have varience because a pitcher shouldn't be controlling when he tries or not, and runs will score. More than .5 per game anyways. I'm not smart enough to think of an actual prediciton of how many it should be.

Jack, does this make sense or am I an idiot?

[Jack of Arcades]

Give examples of pitchers who had a great ERA with such a high batting average against and allowed many runners.

The reasoning is, even if a pitcher had the ability to make big pitchers and get out of jams, he's playing with fire.

You're a pitcher yourself. How many times have you made a great pitch, known it, and then watch the hitter pop weakly between two outfielders, or ground just past the 2B into RF?

Now, more or less, that's gonna happen to every pitcher at the big league level at the same rate. Who's gonna be hurt more when it happens, a guy who allows a lot of base runners, or someone like Johan Santana?

A player who allows a lot of baserunners is walking a tight-rope with very little margin for error, and any mistake or bad luck can be catastrophic.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
Give examples of pitchers who had a great ERA with such a high batting average against and allowed many runners.

The reasoning is, even if a pitcher had the ability to make big pitchers and get out of jams, he's playing with fire.

You're a pitcher yourself. How many times have you made a great pitch, known it, and then watch the hitter pop weakly between two outfielders, or ground just past the 2B into RF?

Now, more or less, that's gonna happen to every pitcher at the big league level at the same rate. Who's gonna be hurt more when it happens, a guy who allows a lot of base runners, or someone like Johan Santana?

A player who allows a lot of baserunners is walking a tight-rope with very little margin for error, and any mistake or bad luck can be catastrophic.

[/ QUOTE ]
good post and correct too, especially the comment about playing with fire. i agree.

this is why when a guy scores on a lucky or fluke hit it's still the pitcher to blame since he put the runner on anyway, my whole point was just saying that this early on i wouldn't look at his stats just but how he is pitching. at this point he could have a good ERA and be pitching bad or vice versa and that goes with WHIP as well but to make accusations and dismiss players b/c of a stat seems a little harsh to me is all(speaking of others).

i like his stuff and early on he has gone batters where is command leaks away from him a little bit and it gets himself in jams, when he puts it all together he will be one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball. most of the great pitchers (clemens, johnson etc.) had these problems at one time too.

thanks for the replies, i like to learn the "smarter" side of the arguements. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jakethebake]

Three words for you...

Dontrelle Willis.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
Three words for you...

Dontrelle Willis.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't even count, why should we trust you to give out the Cy Young?

One word: Rocket.

[bosoxfan]

wow, he hasn't won a game since you posted this.

[bosoxfan]

you know both these guys play in the NL right.

[ceyoung]

yah, but the a's can't score. he's still pitching well, second in the AL in ERA.

[Jack of Arcades]

Top 5 NL pitchers thus far...

1 - Roger Clemense
2a - Brett Myers
2b - Dontrelle Willis
4 - Mike Hampton
5 - Jon Lieber

That NL East is tough.

The AL...

1 - Kenny Rogers
2 - Jon Garland
3 - Roy Halladay
4 - Johan Santana
5 - Erik Bedard

[ceyoung]

johan santana:
K/BB: 11.88
K/9: 10.62

crazy

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Three words for you...Dontrelle Willis.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't even count, why should we trust you to give out the Cy Young? One word: Rocket.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that was a joke right?

[Jack of Arcades]

Hell, Radke has a 34 K/BB

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Three words for you...Dontrelle Willis.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can't even count, why should we trust you to give out the Cy Young? One word: Rocket.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that was a joke right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your entire body of posts is one huge, unfunny joke.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Your entire body of posts is one huge, unfunny joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering the origin, that's quite a compliment.

[tolbiny]

" yes baseball has a lot of luck in it but sample size does not come into factor in a sport in which if you don't have the skill to execute given task then luck will then play no factor."

Sample size does come into play- if you take the best 27 innings a starting pitcher throws all year htey will have a 0 era, if you take their best three starts they will often have and era hoving around 1- Having multiple good starts early in the year is not indicative of have a cy young caliber season.

[bort411]

John Garland? Anyone? How much better does the Sox's staff need to get before they get some recognition?

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
John Garland? Anyone? How much better does the Sox's staff need to get before they get some recognition?

[/ QUOTE ]

By the time they get the recognition, they'll start sucking again. Neither Sox nor Orioles will win 100 games. I'm not sure either will win their division.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Top 5 NL pitchers thus far...

1a - Pedro Martinez
1b - Roger Clemense
2a - Brett Myers
2b - Dontrelle Willis
4 - Mike Hampton
5 - Jon Lieber

That NL East is tough.

The AL...

1 - Kenny Rogers
2 - Jon Garland
3 - Roy Halladay
4 - Johan Santana
5 - Erik Bedard

[/ QUOTE ]

I added Pedro for you

[Jack of Arcades]

3.06 ERA. He's not #1 yet.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
3.06 ERA. He's not #1 yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, but I drool when I look at his 7/1 KK/BB ratio this year. He's really been phenomenal. Where would you put him on the top 5 in the NL right now?