Do I need to throw away my pants and shave my legs?

[usmfan]

CO is decent agg 28/9 player; SB is a donk 62/0 passive.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, CO calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

I was perplexed by SB's stop and go. I think the 3bet flop is standard. My plan was to raise his lead out bet on the river and call or fold if raised. When the second 9 came on the river, I thought maybe he had gone from Q9 2 pair to Q9 boat. Thoughts? Raise the turn? The river? fold if 3bet on either?

[Scotch78]

I don't have a lot of notes on the SB, but here's a summary of what I do have. He's sandbagged a couple times with hands that weren't strong enough for it, and not raised with some good (but not great) hands that did warrant more action. I haven't seen him bluff yet, but I have seen him bet out of nowhere with a weak hand that wouldn't win if called. I would put him on a jack, pocket pair or 9, in that order, and raise the turn.

Scott

[MAxx]

I raise turn as SOP. At 5/10 I don't see a ton of turn donkbets for the purpose of 3betting. If I knew this player would play a five this way, u could play the way you did.

However, if he was so predictable that he would only donkbet-to-3bet something you were drawing 2outs to... then you should raise and fold to to a 3bet.

Assuming you dont have a superread on his play, I would raise and call down a 3bet... and then take notice of what he did this with.

I sometimes play trips this way against aggressive opponentts, and if anyone was paying attension... they would know to fold to this donkbet-to-3bet sequence as I dont fake it. Most call it down though with overpairs.

[usmfan]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have a lot of notes on the SB, but here's a summary of what I do have.
Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not following you. This is a general read?

MAxx: I'm thinking a pocket pair as well. I don't have a lot of hands so I'm not comfortable with the PT #s. The smoothcall of 2 PF made me raise my eyebrows also. What do you think about the plan to c/r the river with any non A, K, J or 9?

[MAxx]

looks like a good read to me: a pp or maybee a good jack.

I prefer charging on the turn, as opposed to c/ring river. I want to get the money in while I am ahead/charge for whatever he is drawing to. That looks like several cards to be afraid of on river... that will scare you from raising river. Btw, you cant c/r river with position. Plus villain may come back down and decide to check/call river with a hand like 77. The time to make him payup, shutup, or reveal his true strenght is on the turn, IMO.

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
Do I need to throw away my pants and shave my legs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depilitory creams work much better. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

if he's a donk I raise the turn and if he stop and goes again on the river I just call.

[Scotch78]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not following you. This is a general read?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's a summary/analysis of this:

-btn l AJs
-utg ol AQ, hu ch F mptk o ch, r T, b R
-ch F tpgk o ch, c T, b R ag ch
-c F [A63] T [J] R [T] J6
-sb c J9, ch-c F n, ch-c T [J], b R ag
-btn ol AK, c std F [JT9] Kfd, r T [A 4fl] nfl
-

I'm sure some of those hands were after the one you posted, but those are my notes from that session.

Scott

[arkady]

[ QUOTE ]
Depilitory creams work much better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not surprised that you know this, G.

But um...what is the plan once SB 3-bets the turn. Cuz at that point you are not looking real good. The hand I mean. You, your creams and the dress - look great.

[usmfan]

Scott: I think I know where you were sitting now. It never occurred to me that someone who was there would be commenting on the hand.

For bunky and other advocating raising the turn, isn't this situation much like a river check-call where you're not confident that you're ahead? I mean I'm either way ahead or way behind. If I call the turn, he'll lead the river and I get the same two bets as if I raise the river. No chance of being 3 bet and I get a showdown. If he's leading the turn with something I'm ahead of, he could very well fold a raise and I lose a bet that's coming on the river. I hate being 3 bet here and I'm going to have trouble getting away from this hand. Sure even a donk could be holding A5s or JJ or AJ. I'm drawing almost dead to 2 of those. Anything else (AA, AK, KK) that I'm behind would cap PF or on the flop more than likely.

BTW, I suppose waxing would also be appropriate.

Results: <font color="white"> Villain shows [ 2h, Qs ] two pairs, nines and fives.
Hero shows [ Qc, Qh ] two pairs, queens and nines.
Hero wins 13.5BB from the main pot with two pairs, queens and nines. </font>

[bunky9590]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Depilitory creams work much better.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Not surprised that you know this, G.


[/ QUOTE ]

Long story. I'll tell you sometime.


[ QUOTE ]
But um...what is the plan once SB 3-bets the turn. Cuz at that point you are not looking real good. The hand I mean.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once he three bets the turn im pretty sure Im screwed. But if they will go nuts with a big Jack I still have to call down if they are a bit maniacal. If they are rockish I can certainly fold, if they are the typical party donk? Case dependent. I will still call down the donks most of the time though. I've seen them flip KJ and JT there way too much.

[ QUOTE ]
You, your creams and the dress - look great.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the compliment, dork. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[arkady]

at that rate, just raise the river.