Level 1, AKs. Push here?

[David04]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t785)
UTG (t695)
UTG+1 (t680)
UTG+2 (t785)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t705)
Hero (t775)
CO (t680)
Button (t1310)
SB (t785)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t50</font>, MP2 calls t50, Hero raises to [t775] , <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls [t665] t15, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: t1485


I pushed PF, hoping to take the pot right there. If I get called, it will likely be a hand like AQ or KJ. So if I get called, it's not terrible. Is my play okay here?

[Vee Quiva]

Not a good move. All you have is Ace high. Why risk elimination with Ace high to win 140 chips? You can make that with a blind steal 4 rounds from now.

Also the only hands that will call you are pocket pairs. Probably just AA and KK but I've seen crazier at the $11's all the way down to 77.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
Also the only hands that will call you are pocket pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. In the 11s I see AT+|KT+|22+ making these calls all the time in level 1. I would consider the 77 caller bordering on relative sanity. RELATIVE sanity, not real sanity /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

EDIT: Maybe even Ax.

[hummusx]

[ QUOTE ]
Not a good move. All you have is Ace high. Why risk elimination with Ace high to win 140 chips? You can make that with a blind steal 4 rounds from now.

Also the only hands that will call you are pocket pairs. Probably just AA and KK but I've seen crazier at the $11's all the way down to 77.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree that the pot was way too small here (raise to 200), I completely disagree that pocket pairs are the only hands that will call here. I've been all-in PF in 22s with other people holding AQ, AJ, A9o!!, KQ. Yesterday I was raised and reraised by someone with K8o. I kid you not. I had AK and when the flop came Kxx, he pushed and I doubled up. This is in the 22s.

To the original poster, I'm not sure why you think that most of the time you will be against AQ or KJ. These may be potential holdings, but AA-99, AK-A9, and a few other hands are definite possibilites. Honestly I don't mind getting my chips in the pot with AKs at this level of play, but I'm not going to just shove them in when the previous person only put 50 in. Make a reasonable raise and play it from there.

[David04]

[ QUOTE ]
To the original poster, I'm not sure why you think that most of the time you will be against AQ or KJ. These may be potential holdings, but AA-99, AK-A9, and a few other hands are definite possibilites. Honestly I don't mind getting my chips in the pot with AKs at this level of play, but I'm not going to just shove them in when the previous person only put 50 in. Make a reasonable raise and play it from there.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't mean exactly AQ or KJ, I just meant that I would likely be called by a hand that I dominated, which would obviously leave me in a good spot.

[spentrent]

AKs with position is a great hand that I think wants to see a flop this early with this action in front of you. I'd consider pushing but I agree with Vee Quiva that a pair will call you and it's likely there's pair with a raise and a cold call in front.

I would make it 100-150 to buy the button and push if the flop hits me.

For the ~60% of the time the flop misses, you can fold and still have a reasonable stack to stay alive.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
I pushed PF, hoping to take the pot right there

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the wrong reason to push this PF. You likely have the best hand. There aren't that many chips in the pot, and you can accumulate more chips usually by reraising than by pushing and having everybody fold. If you are pushing, you are sacrificing a few chips on the hope that you will get called by a hand that you dominate. At a $10 + $1, that might be a worthwhile risk.

[ QUOTE ]
If I get called, it will likely be a hand like AQ or KJ.

[/ QUOTE ] Maybe AQ. KJ is doubtful. In my experience, pocket pairs are more likely to call this than AQ or AJ.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
I would make it 100-150 to buy the button and push if the flop hits me.

For the ~60% of the time the flop misses, you can fold and still have a reasonable stack to stay alive.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I get one caller, I'm going to bet about 3/4 of the pot when the flop misses me. If I get two callers, I would probably check/fold if the flop misses me.

[hummusx]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't mean exactly AQ or KJ, I just meant that I would likely be called by a hand that I dominated, which would obviously leave me in a good spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, my main point is that you are not correct in your assumptions that you would 'likely' be called by a hand that you dominated. I think it's at LEAST equally likely to be up against a hand where you are on the wrong side of a coin flip, and of course you will be called by anyone with AA/KK.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
AKs with position is a great hand that I think wants to see a flop this early with this action in front of you. I'd consider pushing but I agree with Vee Quiva that a pair will call you and it's likely there's pair with a raise and a cold call in front.

I would make it 100-150 to buy the button and push if the flop hits me.

For the ~60% of the time the flop misses, you can fold and still have a reasonable stack to stay alive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I am waiting for Adanthar to slap some sense into us and say "YES, push, FE + perhaps being called by 22-QQ|AT+ is worth the edge you're getting from this pot this early in the tournament."

[gumpzilla]

I'll usually play this one of two ways:

1) Raise to 175-200 with the hope of isolating/discouraging further limpers, and be only minorly disappointed if I take the pot right there. (EDIT: I see some earlier responses suggesting a bet like 100. This is too small for my taste; it seems like it's only going to build the pot but leave you at least three-way, and I'd rather not do that here with the small stacks.)

2) Limp behind and see what develops. If you do this, and two or three more limpers come along for the ride, you'll need to exercise caution depending on what the flop brings. But this line is probably more likely to let you extract chips from a KQ or AJ type holding that gets there.

I play at Stars, where 200 isn't as huge a chunk of stack to part with at the beginning, so that's probably not recommended at Party - pushing might even be better than that.

I think with the 800 chip stacks I'm limping behind here.

[adanthar]

Nah, I'd actually just call here.

Those moves of honor are worth it when there's a lot of limpers or minraisers and the table's loose. So far here, you've got one limper and a guy who made a legit raise, plus position on everyone in the hand.

I like pushing a lot better if you are the SB or there were another couple of coldcallers added to this for bonus chips.

[elonkra]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not a good move. All you have is Ace high. Why risk elimination with Ace high to win 140 chips? You can make that with a blind steal 4 rounds from now.

Also the only hands that will call you are pocket pairs. Probably just AA and KK but I've seen crazier at the $11's all the way down to 77.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree that the pot was way too small here (raise to 200), I completely disagree that pocket pairs are the only hands that will call here. I've been all-in PF in 22s with other people holding AQ, AJ, A9o!!, KQ. Yesterday I was raised and reraised by someone with K8o. I kid you not. I had AK and when the flop came Kxx, he pushed and I doubled up. This is in the 22s.

To the original poster, I'm not sure why you think that most of the time you will be against AQ or KJ. These may be potential holdings, but AA-99, AK-A9, and a few other hands are definite possibilites. Honestly I don't mind getting my chips in the pot with AKs at this level of play, but I'm not going to just shove them in when the previous person only put 50 in. Make a reasonable raise and play it from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what do you do if you get re-raised preflop, or when the flop misses you and your one caller bets half the pot?

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll usually play this one of two ways:

1) Raise to 175-200 with the hope of isolating/discouraging further limpers, and be only minorly disappointed if I take the pot right there. (EDIT: I see some earlier responses suggesting a bet like 100. This is too small for my taste; it seems like it's only going to build the pot but leave you at least three-way, and I'd rather not do that here with the small stacks.)

2) Limp behind and see what develops. If you do this, and two or three more limpers come along for the ride, you'll need to exercise caution depending on what the flop brings. But this line is probably more likely to let you extract chips from a KQ or AJ type holding that gets there.

I play at Stars, where 200 isn't as huge a chunk of stack to part with at the beginning, so that's probably not recommended at Party - pushing might even be better than that.

I think with the 800 chip stacks I'm limping behind here.

[/ QUOTE ]

great post gumpzilla. saved me some writing time /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The reraisor in this hand (MP1) currently has THE ONLY 800 CHIP STACK!! I would say he is tight. Take this reraise seriously. IMO, you do NOT have best hand right now (MAYBE he has AQ sooted).

As to your move, I would only do it with AA (JJ seems to always call for some reason). The low reward compared to ANY risk of leaving if you get a caller here is my rationale.

What is t2000 right now as opposed to even a 30% chance of going home?? (which is a VERY generous appraisal of your chances when/if MP1, let alone a vulture drolling behind you with AA or KK, calls you)

[lastchance]

I disagree with 90% of the people in this thread. At the low levels, where you are bound to be shown AT+, 44+, and other kinds of crap less frequently, you can shove in. There's t140 in the pot right now, and you've got about t800 in front of you. All-in isn't a huge overbet.

You can raise to t150-t200, but that leaves somewhat tough decisions on the flop. You can call behind. But remember, AK loves to be all-in, and seeing all 5 cards is nice. I'd push here with t800 stacks, and not regret it too much.

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with 90% of the people in this thread. At the low levels, where you are bound to be shown AT+, 44+, and other kinds of crap less frequently, you can shove in...AK loves to be all-in, and seeing all 5 cards is nice. I'd push here with t800 stacks, and not regret it too much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally on a 10+1, I would agree with you. I base my decision on the fact that the MP1 raiser has THE ONLY 800 CHIP STACK! I used to be that guy, he has a pok pair at worst, probably JJ, AQs, AKo if he hasn't played yet. with that range, I call and see a flop, hoping to hit QJ10 or AAx or KKx or something so I can double.