Child Rape vs. Child Murder

[ripdog]

A guy that I used to work with, someone that I had to rely on and supervise, recently plead guilty to two counts of child rape. He admitted that he had been abusing his 10 year old daughter for about 5 years and had been abusing his 5 year old daughter for a year. He is now serving a 16.5 year sentence in a state prison. I have no problem with the length of his sentence.

A month (or so) later, a woman killed her step-daughter. The kid was a product of her husband's infidelity. Along with some broken bones and skull fractures, the child's kidney was separated from the ureter. I can't imagine the amount of violence that it took to cause the damage. The recommended sentence for her is 8.5 years. This seems like a slap on the wrist to me.

It seems that raping kids is worse than killing them in the eyes of the justice system.

It's hard to comment on stuff like this without knowing all of the circumstances. On it's face, of course it looks like you're right. But I'd guess there's more to the story relevant to the sentence given in the murder.

[jaxmike]

Both deserve no less than life in prison, at least in my eyes.... I have a feeling the child rapist will end up having his sentence be life in prison......

[slickpoppa]

I don't think that the difference is between rape and murder. The difference is that one offender was a man and the other was a woman.

[mackthefork]

I hear you, ending a childs life over childish jealousy seems worse to me, but both are pretty [censored] up, and deserve the worst they can get, shame women will never get equality from the justice system, yuck.

Mack

[bholdr]

oh my god! i aggree with jaxmike!

[fimbulwinter]

any amount of time in prison for someone who committed sexual crimes against a child is a life sentence. there is a very logical reason for this.

as for the murder, I'd be willing to wager there were massive extenuating circumstances and/or a mitigating mental state for the mother. those in law enforcement aren't the types to pull punches without good reason in such cases.

fim

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
The difference is that one offender was a man and the other was a woman.



[/ QUOTE ]


We have cases like this all over washington state. For instance, no male teacher has ever gotten the leniency that Mary K LePorno got for sleeping with an underage student.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
He is now serving a 16.5 year sentence in a state prison. I have no problem with the length of his sentence

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a problem with it. It should be longer (literal life sentence) or the death penalty.

Or are you saying that after 16.5 years, you wouldn't mind him coming out of prison and living on your block? Maybe even babysitting your kids or grandkids? Or is it ok since he only did his own kids, therefore he isn't as much a threat to kids that aren't his?

Im wondering why you think 16.5 years is adequate given his crime?

b

[arabie]

[ QUOTE ]
He admitted that he had been abusing his 10 year old daughter for about 5 years and had been abusing his 5 year old daughter for a year.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
A month (or so) later, a woman killed her step-daughter. The kid was a product of her husband's infidelity. Along with some broken bones and skull fractures, the child's kidney was separated from the ureter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming there are no influential pending circumstances, they should both be executed.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
Both deserve no less than life in prison

[/ QUOTE ]

[El Barto]

Doesn't the fear of getting caught increase the likelihood that a sexual predator will kill his victim? Instead of letting the victim go, he feels obligated to kill them to eliminate a witness and/or evidence.

Is there a way to encourage these guys not to kill their sexual victims, without releasing them into society to commit more crimes?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't the fear of getting caught increase the likelihood that a sexual predator will kill his victim? Instead of letting the victim go, he feels obligated to kill them to eliminate a witness and/or evidence

[/ QUOTE ]

You're assuming these people are rational and logical, basically soundly thinking, to begin with?

b

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
You're assuming these people are rational and logical, basically soundly thinking, to begin with?


[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think they are all these things?, they seem to me to have the disease most of society have, in that they put their own sick desires ahead of anything else, and be damned with the victim. I don't really care if they are ill, I'd support the death penalty for these people, being from the UK and being against the death penalty full stop, it makes me a hypocrit but I don't care, thats the way I feel.

Mack

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't think they are all these things?, they seem to me to have the disease most of society have, in that they put their own sick desires ahead of anything else, and be damned with the victim

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't think most of society (50+%) put their own 'sick' desires ahead of anything else. Meaning that if they have them, they don't act on them. Think of what the world would be like if people did. Not to mention, most people (50+%) don't have 'sick' desires to molest and kill kids.

b

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
No, I don't think most of society (50+%) put their own 'sick' desires ahead of anything else. Meaning that if they have them, they don't act on them. Think of what the world would be like if people did. Not to mention, most people (50+%) don't have 'sick' desires to molest and kill kids.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but indirectly things that benefit many people make other people suffer, theres a difference but it comes down to symantics in the end. I'm not suggesting that a lot of people are child molesters, but they are not all 'saints' either.

Mack

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not suggesting that a lot of people are child molesters, but they are not all 'saints' either.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a pretty wide gap, don't you? There's quite a gray area in between.

b

[ripdog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He is now serving a 16.5 year sentence in a state prison. I have no problem with the length of his sentence

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a problem with it. It should be longer (literal life sentence) or the death penalty.

Or are you saying that after 16.5 years, you wouldn't mind him coming out of prison and living on your block? Maybe even babysitting your kids or grandkids? Or is it ok since he only did his own kids, therefore he isn't as much a threat to kids that aren't his?

Im wondering why you think 16.5 years is adequate given his crime?

b

[/ QUOTE ]

If I hadn't worked with the guy for a substantial amount of time, I would probably agree with you. 16.5 years in prison for this guy is going to be rough. He is maybe 5'9" and 150lbs soaking wet. He is going to experience what he put his kids through in spades and lubricant free. The top of the sentencing range for him was 20 years, but the judge dropped off time because he spared the kids a trial by admitting guilt.

Regarding the question of him living on my street and watching my kids--the answer would have been NFW even if he had never committed these crimes. I never had any respect for him as a person, but he was the best mechanic I had, so I had to rely on him. Without these circumstances I would not have bothered to get to know him. Actually, prior to becoming his boss I would feed him [censored] about having so many kids (4 by age 25). I used to tell him what a shame it is that so many fit parents out there that want kids so badly can't have any, and here you are, can't even afford to take care of yourself, with 4 kids. Then I'd tell him that he could sell off a couple on the black market for probably $15,000 a pop. Little did I know that they really would be better off if he did this.

He's going to pay dearly in prison and his kids get a chance to recover. My real point here was that it seems unjust that this woman who violently murdered her stepchild pays less than half the price (when you factor in the unlubed violence that the rapist is going to suffer).

[BadBoyBenny]

Article (http://slate.msn.com/id/2063086)

[Wad]

And then there's some that do both.

My daughter went to school with the 10 year old mentioned in this article. Makes me wish there was a death penalty in MN

Link (http://www.winonadailynews.com/articles/2005/04/21/news/01gordon.txt)

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
(when you factor in the unlubed violence that the rapist is going to suffer).


[/ QUOTE ]

You can't really compare being raped by your own parent to being raped in prison. On the one hand, one is in a postion of great trust and expectation of being protected by the person from the 'bad' people. When that person 'is' the bad person.

In prison, you don't have this expectation. The kid will be screwed up mentally much, much longer than the guy in prison will ever be.

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding the question of him living on my street and watching my kids--the answer would have been NFW even if he had never committed these crimes

[/ QUOTE ]

I was asking specifically in regards to him being a sex offender. Put it this way, would you like any sex offender, and a child sex offender at that, after serving 16.5 years to be living on your block? If not, where do you expect them to live? Is it ok if it's on someone else's block? I ask this because this is one main reason I think they ought to be in jail for the rest of their lives, or better yet, executed. I don't believe sex offenders, much less adult sex offenders of children are reformable.

b

[El Barto]

It's too bad no one really addressed my question. If you had ten sexual predators who each raped and killed their victim, if you could find a way to convince even one or two of them not to murder their victims while not putting them back on the street, would it be worth it?

Also, how could this be done?

Surely, it would make sense to keep a few more people alive. Thoughts?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Surely, it would make sense to keep a few more people alive. Thoughts

[/ QUOTE ]

What point would it be making to keep them alive yet still incarcerated forever? Cheap labor?

b

[El Barto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Surely, it would make sense to keep a few more people alive. Thoughts

[/ QUOTE ]

What point would it be making to keep them alive yet still incarcerated forever? Cheap labor?

b

[/ QUOTE ]

Boy, you completely muffed this one bernie. I'm talking about keeping the assault victims alive here, maybe a 7 year old girl who gets kidnapped. You seem to think I am talking about the kidnapper. Reread the post.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Boy, you completely muffed this one bernie.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sure did. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I think for some kids, for what gets done to them, it's a lifelong sentence. In some cases, they don't ever recover from it.

I guess Im not sure what your point is. Are you asking if it's better just to be raped and not murdedered? You'd have to ask surviving victims. I'm sure some would agree with you. Some wouldn't.

I don't know how you think it would ever be possible to convince someone to rape a kid but not kill them by offering them, what?

Not sure what type of realistic answer you're looking for.

b