AA is hard

[fuzzbox]

400 10 player PL game
Stacks all about 400 or more.

Blinds 2/4.
Villain 1 (400ish) minraises
Villain 2 (big stack) flat calls
Folded to hero
Hero (400ish) makes it 40 (full pot) with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif
Folded back to Villains.
Both call.

Pot 120 or so.

Flop is a wonderful
9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Checked to Hero ... your move ?

[IRV]

I hate this flop for obvious reasons.

I think you have to POT this on the flop and hope all fold or a blank hits on the turn.

[swolfe]

bet $90

[steaknshake925]

fold to raise?

[DyessMan89]

I bet around 90, and then drastically slowdown and check/call if I get action.

[fuzzbox]

400 10 player PL game
Stacks all about 400 or more.

Blinds 2/4.
Villain 1 (400ish) minraises
Villain 2 (big stack) flat calls
Folded to hero
Hero (400ish) makes it 40 (full pot) with A A
Folded back to Villains.
Both call.

Pot 120 or so.

Flop is a wonderful
9 T J

Checked to Hero ....

Hero checks. Hero wanted to keep the pot small, hero did not fancy being checkraised by anybody with diamonds or a Q, or diamonds and a Q in this spot. Also hero is behind an awful lot of hands that could have called that pf bet (99, TT, JJ, 78, KQ, and QQ has plenty of outs) Hero wanted to see a turn card.

Turn was 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif probably the best card in the deck for hero.

Villain 1 - bets 70. Villain 2 folds.

Your move ... ?

Anybody like the flop check ?

[fuzzbox]

What if your action is a big check-raise.

You make it 90 (pot is now 210, say Villain 1 check-raises pot - he calls 90 and makes it 300 more back to you ... so you have been check-raised all-in, and you have no idea where you are).

[TrailofTears]

Bet the flop, check behind on the turn if called, check or call a smaller bet on the river UI.

-Trail

[TrailofTears]

Then you fold.

[joewatch]

Check the flop to try to trap KK or QQ. If any diamond, A, or blank falls on the turn, lead/raise. Check behind if a K or Q falls. Depends on your reads, but usually reraises only get called by AKs, QQ and KK. I think your hand is best here.

[elcap]

I don't like the check on the flop b/c now you really have no idea where you are on the turn. I think it has been said already but a 3/4 pot bet and fold if check raised. If someone is slowplaying trips or straight and then you are probably still going to end up putting in some money on the turn unless a real scary card comes. Why not put the cash in on the flop and get an idea where you are. If you are called then at least on you are in position and can get more of a read on his hand by seeing what he decides to do. If he leads out a big bet into you on the turn I think I probably get away from the hand regardless of the turn card. If he checks I likely check see what the river brings and then decide whether or not to call any bet.

[edge]

[ QUOTE ]
Turn was 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif probably the best card in the deck for hero.

Villain 1 - bets 70. Villain 2 folds.

Your move ... ?

[/ QUOTE ]

From here I raise and check through the river. I definitely don't like the flop check though, especially with two players in. Bet it and check through the turn (unless it's an A). Play some poker on the river, depending on various things.

[DyessMan89]

[ QUOTE ]
400 10 player PL game
Stacks all about 400 or more.

Blinds 2/4.
Villain 1 (400ish) minraises
Villain 2 (big stack) flat calls
Folded to hero
Hero (400ish) makes it 40 (full pot) with A A
Folded back to Villains.
Both call.

Pot 120 or so.

Flop is a wonderful
9 T J

Checked to Hero ....

Hero checks. Hero wanted to keep the pot small, hero did not fancy being checkraised by anybody with diamonds or a Q, or diamonds and a Q in this spot. Also hero is behind an awful lot of hands that could have called that pf bet (99, TT, JJ, 78, KQ, and QQ has plenty of outs) Hero wanted to see a turn card.

Turn was 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif probably the best card in the deck for hero.

Villain 1 - bets 70. Villain 2 folds.

Your move ... ?

Anybody like the flop check ?

[/ QUOTE ]

DyessMan89 says stop talking in the 3rd person, Hero.

But anyways, In this spot I would raise the turn, and fold if he comes over the top.

[joewatch]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the check on the flop b/c now you really have no idea where you are on the turn. I think it has been said already but a 3/4 pot bet and fold if check raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this weak-tight sort of play. First of all, by the action preflop, and from what you remember from previous hands, you should have a very good idea about what your opponents have. In general, at an average tight-passive table, your reraise will only get called by KK, QQ and AKs. When you reraise, you represent AA-QQ or AKs. By checking the flop, you represent missed AKs. Now somebody with KK, or QQ thinks their hand is best on the turn. You have position, so you come over the top with a big reraise and win a nice pot.

Let's say we play it your way - you bet 3/4 pot. Anybody with QQ is going to raise you now because they have overpair + str8 draw. Anybody with KK is going to raise you because they have to check if you have missed AK or QQ. Anybody with JJ or TT may or may not raise you. See what the problem is? There is a very good chance you are going to be folding the best hand.

[fuzzbox]

400 10 player PL game
Stacks all about 400 or more.

Blinds 2/4.
Villain 1 (400ish) minraises
Villain 2 (big stack) flat calls
Folded to hero
Hero (400ish) makes it 40 (full pot) with A A
Folded back to Villains.
Both call.

Pot 120 or so.

Flop is a wonderful
9 T J

Checked to Hero ....

Hero checks. Hero wanted to keep the pot small, hero did not fancy being checkraised by anybody with diamonds or a Q, or diamonds and a Q in this spot. Also hero is behind an awful lot of hands that could have called that pf bet (99, TT, JJ, 78, KQ, and QQ has plenty of outs) Hero wanted to see a turn card.

Turn was 2 probably the best card in the deck for hero.

Villain 1 - bets 70. Villain 2 folds.

Hero just flat calls the 70 (mistake ?). Im still not sure that my hand is best, although now that I have seen the turn I am far ahead of a lot more hands. I think, in hindsight, that I should have pushed here, but I didnt.

River is one of the worst cards
K /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Villain pushes for ~230 or so.

Hero folds (I cant beat anything that he can do that with).

Villain shows Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Good fold on the end. I think good check on the flop ... I think turn is where I messed up. Anybody go to the felt on the turn ?

[fuzzbox]

Im not sure I like that move. Basically Im bluffing at the pot, and if I meet resistance then Im done. Thus, having AA is inconsequential.

If i bet, then there is a very large risk that I will get pushed off the best hand in this spot.

[fuzzbox]

I think you have to remember the stack sizes here. My position is completely worthless if I bet the flop, and get checkraised, because the check-raise puts me all-in.

However, my position is very valuable if I check the flop.
Also, I have the A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, which I view as extremely important in this spot.

[fuzzbox]

Once again, see stack sizes. Pot after the turn bet is 190. I have 360 left. A full pot raise would be call the 90 (pot = 280) and 280 more for a max of 370. Thus Im all in.

If I raise, then I should go for the lot, thus there will be no river play if I raise.

[fuzzbox]

[ QUOTE ]

DyessMan89 says stop talking in the 3rd person, Hero.

But anyways, In this spot I would raise the turn, and fold if he comes over the top.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot do that. If I raise, then I go to the felt. There is no more play. Do you think Im ahead enough times to push here ? How often am I ahead if Im called ?
I think this is closer than it appears, but I am thinking that I should have pushed the turn (is that hindsight because of what he actually hand I wonder ?)

[fuzzbox]

If I bet the flop, (say 90) and am called in one spot. The pot is now 300, and I have 270 left. Do you fold for this ?
What size bet will you call on the turn/river ?
Why would you now check a blank turn ?
If you plan to shutdown to action, then surely it would be better to check the flop ...?

[Malachii]

Supersystem I p 455, Doyle is talking about playing big pairs after the flop.

"If [the flop] came J-10-9, and I've got two people in the pot with me... I immediately give it up. Almost any two cards that those people have will fit into those Flops somehow. They're either going to have a hand that's already got me beat or they're going to have a hand to draw at that would make my hand no better than an even money shot."

Sounds like good advice to me.