STEP Higher - 100k to winner

[ZebraAss]

That makes me sick...that just makes me sick

[tomdemaine]

just think of the rakeback bwahahaha.

[Rojosox]

time for me to 8 table the Step 5s!

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

My God... /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

ME WANTS! /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Rojosox]

can someone post the structure - how many move on from each step? PP is blocked at work

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

Starts off from 30+3... 1st place gets to a higher step, 2nd and 3rd get a seat in the same step.

[adanthar]

One each, even at Step 1. There's absolutely no way. And where is anyone gonna get the bankroll to buy in direct?

There are new mini-Steps, too. Those may be worth it just because the competition has to suck more, but...

[Rojosox]

The ministeps sucks BECAUSE it pays out 5 spots. If it were 3 spots, it would be like double the $215. It cannot be profitable to be playing the ministeps.

-Jared

[Rojosox]

just thinking about it....i would bet 57% who finish 4th in the Higher Step 5 end up breaking their computer.

[ColdestCall]

[ QUOTE ]
And where is anyone gonna get the bankroll to buy in direct?


[/ QUOTE ]

There is no question that there are currently people with the bankroll to buy in direct. Whether or not they should, however, is an entirely different matter.

15K is simply too high for online play IMO (not that it won't go even higher in the future...) With this kind of money involved, it is a near certainty that there will be well financed, expert poker players colluding to take advantage of the lucky (or even really good) players who work their way up. Caveat emptor.

[adanthar]

There's half a dozen online regulars (not B&M pros) I can think of that can scrape together 20 buyins if they try...maybe. I'm only sure of two, maybe three. But 20 buyins at this level is not even close to what you need.

Add in collusion...no. You'd need a million to make a run at these *and* nine other people that'll fill up a game. I guess they could all sit around waiting for a sucker to move up the ladder but how long would that take???

[Rojosox]

I have the bankroll to buy in direct if I want to. I think Im going to take 3k and 4 table the step 2, which is $100/10 right? Even if you lose you can bounce around. Other thoughts is that it might take an hour or longer to fill up the higher step 4 and 5's. Again, could someone be kind enough to write out the exact structure of the higher steps as I'm going to analyze the math behind it. Please put exact buy-in and who moves up/down at each level. Thanks- Jared

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
just thinking about it....i would bet 57% who finish 4th in the Higher Step 5 end up breaking their computer.

[/ QUOTE ]

The more you think about it, the more this looks like a giant conspiracy between PartyPoker and peripheral companies.

[adanthar]

The BR rule in limit is 300 big bets, probably double that if playing professionally. A 30/60 pro regular at Party should have at least a 30-40K roll to be on the safe side. A Step 5 regular needs more, but not that much more, so we'll say Step 5's are equivalent to a 40/80 game.

That would make this 600/1200. There is no way in the world that anyone is gonna play those without at least waiting for a live one to swim up (which could take weeks) and they would be suicidal to try without a $600,000 roll or more. Where are you gonna find those people online? A handful of them may exist scattered across sites, but...

[Dudd]

Here the link to Party's website that should give you all the details.

Step higher (http://partypoker.com/news/events/step-higher-05.html)

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
I have the bankroll to buy in direct if I want to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good luck with that...

The detailed structure is as follows:

$30+3 STEP HIGHER 1:
1)Step 2
2-6)Step 1
7)$25
8-10)Out

$100+10 STEP HIGHER 2:
1)Step 3
2-4)Step 2
5-7)Step 1
8)$90
9-10)Out

$500+50 STEP HIGHER 3:
1)Step 4
2-3)Step 3
4-8)Step 2
9)Step 1
10)Out

$3000+300 (oh hey more 10% rake) STEP HIGHER 4:
1)Step 5
2-5)Step 4
6-7)Step 3
8)Step 2
9)$90 (lol)
10)Out

$15,000+500 STEP HIGHER 5:
1)$100,000
2)$30,000
3)$20,000

[Rojosox]

I cant go to the link because PP is blocked at work!!!!!!!!! Can you copy/paste?

Jared

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

Step 3 - 500/50 - 1st moves on, 2nd and 3rd stay in the same step
Step 4 - 3000/300 - Same
Step 5 - 15000/500 - 100k to first, 30k and 20k

Oh, and one of the Step 5s just had three people sitting on it, I think.

[Rojosox]

what is the buy in for step 2? Is it $100/10?

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

Haha... sorry, you never seem to be getting the complete answer you seek... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Step 2 - 100/10

[adanthar]

Yeah, I just edited my post to look better.

edit: Looking at S5 again, no one at that buyin with Party blinds will be playing anything less than optimal poker HU. It's gonna be a coinflip for 70 thousand dollars. You're gonna need a LOT more than 30 buyins for this to work...600K may be a low end estimate.

[ColdestCall]

[ QUOTE ]
There's half a dozen online regulars (not B&M pros) I can think of that can scrape together 20 buyins if they try...maybe. I'm only sure of two, maybe three. But 20 buyins at this level is not even close to what you need.

Add in collusion...no. You'd need a million to make a run at these *and* nine other people that'll fill up a game. I guess they could all sit around waiting for a sucker to move up the ladder but how long would that take???

[/ QUOTE ]

I am confident there are more people out there who could buy into these direct than you think. I can think of four off the top of my head who have this kind of e-currency and the willingness to put it into action (and the requisite poker skills), and these are separate from the half-dozen or so you are thinking of. I feel certain there are more, but whatever. Time will tell, and it's not that important anyway.

As far as collusion goes, I think you may be underestimating the allure of this kind of money. I would posit that a team of three experts colluding should conservatively be able to achieve a 10% ROI in this game, and they wouldn't encounter all that much variance while they did it. That works out to about $1500/hr, which is high enough to attract people to do it, even if the games don't go off all that often.

[Rojosox]

Yea, Im definitely [censored] around all weekend with 30 buy-ins to Step 2. I should easily be able to bounce around and get to step 4/5 by the end of the weekend. My fear is that it will take 2 hours to fill up step 5s!

Jared

[Rojosox]

Im not talking about 30 buy-ins at step 5. Im referring to 30 buy-ins at step 2. I truly think I can get to a few step 5s from that. And with that just cash in 1.

-Jared

[davehwm]

Hands down the most troubling thought about the $15000+500 is collusion.

[kevstreet]

Those of you willing to take a shot at this, say you're even stacked playing heads-up and the other guy offers to split, do you take it?

[adanthar]

If you're twice as good as the competition, I give you a 40% chance to make one S5H from 30 buyins.

I have about a 900% ROI in the Step 5 2 tables so I know it's tempting, but the time investment, collusion even in S4 never mind 5...yuck. This MAY be a good long term bet but it is gonna unbelievably suck to actually play it.

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

Good luck to you then, post your results, I'd be interested to read. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dudd]

[ QUOTE ]
Those of you willing to take a shot at this, say you're even stacked playing heads-up and the other guy offers to split, do you take it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone who'd take an anonymous person on the internet's word that he'd gladly hand over 35k is a hell of a lot more trusting than I'd be.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Those of you willing to take a shot at this, say you're even stacked playing heads-up and the other guy offers to split, do you take it?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because Party support won't police it, even for $70K. It's ridiculous and another reason not to bother.

[Sam T.]

[ QUOTE ]
It's gonna be a coinflip for 70 thousand dollars.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just threw up a little.

[kevstreet]

Party won't police it? That sucks! How much support would it take to make sure each account was given $65K? Same thing for big MTTs!?

[Rojosox]

Normally I think the payout would be different, but the caveat is the winner gets 100k. I do like how it pays out 3 spots though. I think the regular steps should be 5k, 3k, 2k. The mini steps will be worse with their payouts (if you buy-in direct, you actually lose money finishing 4th/5th and barely cover your buy-in with a 3rd place)

-jared

[Voltron87]

Not including family members, I can list all the people I would trust to do this on one hand, with three fingers to spare.

[adanthar]

Site policy. Yeah, even the $1M has to play out.

[BradleyT]

Raptor are you in????
Holla!?!?!?! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[davehwm]

[ QUOTE ]
Raptor are you in????
Holla!?!?!?! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Just wait until he wakes up and sees this. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[adanthar]

After sitting down and chatting for 10 minutes...

NUTZREALBIG: im not retarded
NUTZREALBIG: u actually think i would buy str8 into this
NUTZREALBIG: u uhave to be on fucin crak
NUTZREALBIG has left the table.

[rohjoh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raptor are you in????
Holla!?!?!?! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Just wait until he wakes up and sees this. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

But think of the rake back! Hey Raptor, it sucks you will not be able to 8,12,or 16 table these, only available on PP...

[Newt_Buggs]

wtf is up with a 10% rake until step 5? Taking a 10% rake at a $3,000 buy in is just insulting.

[Big Limpin']

You know what sickens me the most about this? Its that Party pulls $5,000 in vig for one tourney. Straight profit. Bleeacggghhh!

With respect to collusion, the least they could do is offer a guarentee that they will analyze every hand for signs.

I mean, what, it might take a guy 30 minutes to do this, and he makes $20/hr?....They still pull $4,990 in profit

[Gramps]

The funniest sh-t is that everyone is going there and sitting down, just to check it out (to see if it's really $15,000 or something (me included)). If you open the table, it's just a constant flow of people sitting down and leaving, with no one yet buying in...

[eastbay]

It's really kind of odd that they are offering a $15k step, but haven't offered a regular old $300, $400, or $500 STT yet.

These STEPS must really be a serious cash cow for them to have gone so hog wild on them.

I've been watching all morning, and the STEPh 3's aren't even starting regularly, much less the 4's or 5's. Might be a very long time before a 5 runs.

eastbay

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
wtf is up with a 10% rake until step 5? Taking a 10% rake at a $3,000 buy in is just insulting.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is especially insulting since it costs them the same amount to run as a $5+1. You would think for that amount they would post someone live to help facilitate deals.

[Newt_Buggs]

Its probably because 80% of people on party poker would never even notice. I bet that if you sat down at a 5+1 tourney and asked everyone what % the rake was at a 5 and at a 10 maybe one could tell you the difference off of the top of their head. Normal people just don't think about these things

My roommate could never wrap his head around why in the steps they tack on $3 or $7 or something to one of the last place finishes. I explained that it was because they had $3 or $7 left over in the prizepool that wasn't enough for a buy-in at another step, but he never really got why they didn't just keep it. The sad thing is that he is probably right, most party players would never notice if the steps never even paid out the entire prize pool.

[Degen]

ya dude, check out the math...only 1st moves on, then only 1st of that one.

so 100 entries to get one step 3. thats a lot of phucking rake!!!

This is the biggest rake trap i've ever seen.


Degen

[tomdemaine]

They've learnt from their WSOP just how lucrative infinitely repeating steps can be. If these things anywhere near take off I predict a big bump in Party's profits.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
And where is anyone gonna get the bankroll to buy in direct?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a $4000-8000 B&M game. Where is anyone gonna get the bankroll to buy in to that?

Online $5000 and $10,000 buyin NL games are going all over the place. Where is anyone gonna get the bankroll to buy in to those games?

Your statement is silly.

[Sponger15SB]

Alright so if I quad table the Step higher 5's and say I play 5 per hour on average, and I have a 15% ROI, that would be $11,625 an hour?

Is my math right?

If I play this 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year that is

$20,325,000

Should I quit my job?

[Paul2432]

[ QUOTE ]
The sad thing is that he is probably right, most party players would never notice if the steps never even paid out the entire prize pool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Add in a few 2+2ers.


[ QUOTE ]
$500+50 STEP HIGHER 3:
1)Step 4
2-3)Step 3
4-8)Step 2
9)Step 1
10)Out

[/ QUOTE ]


3300 + 2 x 550 + 5 x 110 + 33 = 4983

Party is stealthily pocketing $17 on this one.

Paul

[Voltron87]

I think a 12% ROI is more realistic, so drop the 20,000,000 to about 15-16 mil.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a 12% ROI is more realistic, so drop the 20,000,000 to about 15-16 mil.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well even a 1% ROI would be a cool $1,550,000 a year

[Voltron87]

Plus, anyone playing these with any degree of regularity is going to get an absolutely retarded amount of rakeback.

[rohjoh]

The variance would be a bith. A 20 OTM run = -$310,000. Nothing like a -$310,000 run to put a hit in the bank roll.

[DonButtons]

no one wants to play vs me /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[curtains]

PartyPoker is completely @#%@#^ INSANE

[Vish]

[ QUOTE ]
They've learnt from their WSOP just how lucrative infinitely repeating steps can be. If these things anywhere near take off I predict a big bump in Party's profits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe we should just buy stock in Party Poker.

[adanthar]

The 4K/8K game is 8-10 people with a bunch of multi-millionaires and some lesser pros stopping by to feed it. It's a different animal.

Online 10K buyin NL is barely in the same ballpark as far as BR goes. A fair amount of people have 100K, even 200K rolls online. 600K? Pushing it.

No doubt some B&M pros will hear about this and buy in, but I don't see a lot of online players doing it. Even the Step 5 regulars are just buying in at S3H and S4H right now. Maybe if they pool their money and collude (awesome).

[meow_meow]

Someone at party is soooooo smart:
The way they are promoting only 1st, with more places "freerolling" the same step. Aiming high with 10% rake on a 3k SNG. Structuring the ministep 5 payout such that it is unattractive to direct buy-in - "hey, maybe I should try a step higher 3 instead".

Not to mention raking rebuys and addons (vomit), BBJ, HHJ....

I don't think PP cares much that they will annoy those who know better. They are skimming rake from the masses as fast as they possibly can.

I wonder if anyone can do a reasonable analysis of what percentage of the money that goes into the ministep1s actually comes out the top?
I mean, right away, $60 entry - 10 of it is rake, one player gets a step2 (2$ more is raked), 4 freeroll step 1 again ($4 more). That's more than 26% of the entry, and we've only gone round once. I'm guessing that less than 25% comes out the top, maybe much less.

[Newt_Buggs]

I agree totally, party poker is really smart for doing this. I'de be interested to see a full analysis on the rake too. It really wouldn't be hard at all, i'm just way too lazy.

haha, I just saw iriechicken sit down at the step higher 3 then leave.

[afk]

Have any of these run yet? I just checked the table and there were actually 9 people with money in front of them. A tenth joined and all of a sudden everyone pulled their money out before he bought in. Interesting.

[FieryJustice]

That [censored] is crazy. If I was rich, I would be in these in a second...too bad I can only buy into like 3 before i am broke /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

I mean, right away, $60 entry - 10 of it is rake, one player gets a step2 (2$ more is raked), 4 freeroll step 1 again ($4 more). That's more than 26% of the entry, and we've only gone round once. I'm guessing that less than 25% comes out the top, maybe much less.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's (http://www.livejournal.com/users/walterzuey/2004/12/08/) a page with some analysis of the original Step format.

[Paul2432]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree totally, party poker is really smart for doing this. I'de be interested to see a full analysis on the rake too. It really wouldn't be hard at all, i'm just way too lazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've done the math. If 100,000 play a higher step 1, eventually 89 will play a step 5. They will pay $3,300,000 in buy-ins and collect $1,989,000 in prizes.

I hope I am wrong, but I think these tournaments cannot not be a good thing.

Paul

[rohjoh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree totally, party poker is really smart for doing this. I'de be interested to see a full analysis on the rake too. It really wouldn't be hard at all, i'm just way too lazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've done the math. If 100,000 play a higher step 1, eventually 89 will play a step 5. They will pay $3,300,000 in buy-ins and collect $1,989,000 in prizes.

I hope I am wrong, but I think these tournaments cannot not be a good thing.

Paul

[/ QUOTE ]

I can just see all the executives at PP sitting in a board room with a giant computer screen with all the Step Higher 5's open, praying they will fill up, and every time they do, bells and whistles go off, as they book another boat load of cash! Man why did I not think of this.

[Degen]

i plan on it

Degen

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Online 10K buyin NL is barely in the same ballpark as far as BR goes. A fair amount of people have 100K, even 200K rolls online. 600K? Pushing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think an adequate bankroll for 50/100NL is? If you think that number is 200k, you're wrong.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
I can just see all the executives at PP sitting in a board room with a giant computer screen with all the Step Higher 5's open, praying they will fill up, and every time they do, bells and whistles go off, as they book another boat load of cash! Man why did I not think of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your not even getting how ridiculous this is... They make nothing in the step 5s (in terms of %'s) compared to having people bounce around paying rake over and over again in the lower steps. I'm not sure theres more then 5 people on the internet right now that could show a long term profit starting at step 3 or 4.

Its like that WSOP post where the guy just wouldnt understand how even though he was winnning a freeroll he was still paying rake. People are stupid, and party is capatilising.

[rohjoh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can just see all the executives at PP sitting in a board room with a giant computer screen with all the Step Higher 5's open, praying they will fill up, and every time they do, bells and whistles go off, as they book another boat load of cash! Man why did I not think of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your not even getting how ridiculous this is... They make nothing in the step 5s (in terms of %'s) compared to having people bounce around paying rake over and over again in the lower steps. I'm not sure theres more then 5 people on the internet right now that could show a long term profit starting at step 3 or 4.

Its like that WSOP post where the guy just wouldnt understand how even though he was winnning a freeroll he was still paying rake. People are stupid, and party is capatilising.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, you figure every time a Step 5 fills up it took 5xStep4's, 50xStep3's, 500xStep2's, 10000xStep1's for them to fill. Too much math to figure out the exact number, but it has to look something like that for a full progression to take place. This assumes everyone starts at Step 1, but still, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that this is very very very profitable for PP.

[adanthar]

I thought it was in that ballpark but I guess not? What's a good number of buyins at that level?

[raptor517]

oh god. there goes the rest of my bankroll.. sigh.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
The ministeps sucks BECAUSE it pays out 5 spots. If it were 3 spots, it would be like double the $215. It cannot be profitable to be playing the ministeps.

-Jared

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno about hourly rate, but don't you think you can have a killer ROI in these? The payout structures are so flat, and yet a few people bust out early anyway.

[citanul]

the thing that i find interesting about these games is the following:

let's assume that *no one* buys in direct. the top steps will still run. maybe not all that often, but frequently enough.

and then party gets to advertize yet another weekly person who just won a 911 turbo, or a house, or whatever. it's yet another "we make a millionaire every week" type of deal. and the people who are looking for that kind of action, instead of attaining a good hourly rate, will be very happy to chug in 30 bucks at the bottom, since the rainbow is so bright.

citanul

[gasgod]

[ QUOTE ]
Its like that WSOP post where the guy just wouldnt understand how even though he was winnning a freeroll he was still paying rake. People are stupid, and party is capatilising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes because the rake isn't out of pocket. Kind of like a withholding tax.


GG

[Blarg]

Yeah, it does have an attractive lottery type flavor to it that will attract some fools.

One nice thing is that hyped up things like this could easily draw people to joining regular old low level SNG's as they try to learn and "prep" themselves to take on their lottery-sized dreams. Same thing as the WSOP and WPT drawing people into more modest levels of poker. It's basically a great indirect advertisement for SNG's in general.

[Misfire]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it does have an attractive lottery type flavor to it that will attract some fools.

[/ QUOTE ]

I took $50 out of my party account and wrote it off to play the WSOP steps on RV. I know it's a sucker's bet, so call me a fool if you want, but they're fun to play and the cinderella payoff is a nice dream.

Edit: And they're not nearly as shady as this new PP nonsense.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The ministeps sucks BECAUSE it pays out 5 spots. If it were 3 spots, it would be like double the $215. It cannot be profitable to be playing the ministeps.

-Jared

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno about hourly rate, but don't you think you can have a killer ROI in these? The payout structures are so flat, and yet a few people bust out early anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was thinking. Rake is the same as the $215s so that is not a factor.

1) You have dead-ish money trickling up.
2) With five spots getting paid but 1st still get 50%, surely it will reward someone being very aggressive in going for 1st, since they do get a bit of money when they bust in 4th and 5th.

[raptor517]

heres the problem with paying 5 spots. it softens the bubble. all of the best players will not do as well as they should because people will not be as afraid of bubbling, because the pay difference isnt very much. the strategy of the game will change. not a LOT, but you wont be able to push every hand 4 handed anymore. and that sucks. holla

[valenzuela]

The higher step 5s have higher variance because of the payout structure, lets suppose we want a 1% ROR and we have a 10% ROI( who cares about ITM). You need .....$1500000.

[valenzuela]

ure way off. $2000 isnt much?. lucky players who play the 11s will fold their AQ. The high stakes are enough to compensate the payout structure same thing happens with 10k buy-in tournaments.

[raptor517]

i beg to differ. YOU are way off. 2k ISNT anything. period. there will MAYBE be 1 person who is worried about the 2k. everyone else knows they bought in for 15k, so the 2k is essentially meaningless. the bubble is gone, so is the edge of knowing how to play the bubble effectively. holla

[valenzuela]

are we talking about the same steps? anyway how do u explain ppl that play tight because they can bust-out on MTT. EDIT: lets forget about the money, the psicological factor to avoid busting out will still be there, anyway whats the payotu structure

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
i beg to differ. YOU are way off. 2k ISNT anything. period. there will MAYBE be 1 person who is worried about the 2k. everyone else knows they bought in for 15k, so the 2k is essentially meaningless. the bubble is gone, so is the edge of knowing how to play the bubble effectively. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

dude, we're talking about the mini-STEPS. no one paid 15k. anyway, part of my point was that it seems unusually easy to make one's way up from say, step2.
yes the bubble play changes but there's still an optimal way to play. so what if it's different from the optimal way to play the regular .5-.3-.2 SnG bubble.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And where is anyone gonna get the bankroll to buy in direct?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a $4000-8000 B&M game. Where is anyone gonna get the bankroll to buy in to that?

Online $5000 and $10,000 buyin NL games are going all over the place. Where is anyone gonna get the bankroll to buy in to those games?

Your statement is silly.

[/ QUOTE ]


Tried making any 200k deposits into party lately?

It's less about HAVING the money and more abount having it readily available online. I doubt PP has NEAR the 100K+ BR guys that sites like PS and UB do, given the much smaller top level games.

All that said, I don;t know that these are playable. Just TOO much chance to be colluded against, among many other downsides.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Online 10K buyin NL is barely in the same ballpark as far as BR goes. A fair amount of people have 100K, even 200K rolls online. 600K? Pushing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think an adequate bankroll for 50/100NL is? If you think that number is 200k, you're wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard it said,(albeit likely hyperbolically), that to play the 25/50 NL safely on UB takes a half million dollar BR. This was said after I guessed 1000x the Big blind as a safe NL bankroll.

[davehwm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i beg to differ. YOU are way off. 2k ISNT anything. period. there will MAYBE be 1 person who is worried about the 2k. everyone else knows they bought in for 15k, so the 2k is essentially meaningless. the bubble is gone, so is the edge of knowing how to play the bubble effectively. holla

[/ QUOTE ]dude, we're talking about the mini-STEPS. no one paid 15k. anyway, part of my point was that it seems unusually easy to make one's way up from say, step2.

[/ QUOTE ]

*Talking about the mini-Steps (not Step Higher)!:

I played a mini-Step 2 this morning for the hell of it while multi-tabling the 22's. I made it to Step 3 on the second try, then took two straight thirds in Step 3. The quality of play was HORRIBLE. If you notice how many Step 1's ($5+1) are running at any given time, this makes sense. I doubt I'd do this more than just once in a while, but I don't doubt that I can make it to Step 4 on this same freeroll (even if I have have to drop back down to Step 2).

Step 2 got so tight at 6 players it was unreal, and it got to 6 players awfully quick. No one wants to drop back down to Step 1, so I was stealing with my eyes closed 6 handed. I suspect that the Step 5s will have plenty of sharks but more than enough fish (like myself - a $22er or below) sneaking in.

[Nottom]

So any bets on when the first Step Higher level 5 will run?

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
So any bets on when the first Step Higher level 5 will run?

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like tomorrow night at the earliest. Hard to tell, though. You'd think more people would be filtering up to the Step 4, but I haven't seen a Step 4 run all day.

eastbay

[FishBurger]

I think Party went overboard with the greed here. Nobody wants to pay a 10% rake on a $3000 SnG. That's just crazy.

Plus, these higher steps allow Party access to a lot of money in addition to the rake. I have a couple of Step 2s that have been sitting in my Party account for over a month. If you multiply all the Step 1s through Step 4s that are sitting in people's accounts, that's a lot of money that Party can invest or at least earn interest on.

I don't see these higher steps catching on. The rake is too high and having even a couple of Higher Step 4s in your account is $6600 that you can't access but Party can invest or do whatever they want with it.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it does have an attractive lottery type flavor to it that will attract some fools.

[/ QUOTE ]

I took $50 out of my party account and wrote it off to play the WSOP steps on RV. I know it's a sucker's bet, so call me a fool if you want, but they're fun to play and the cinderella payoff is a nice dream.

Edit: And they're not nearly as shady as this new PP nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, very fun to think about. Any publicity about the big dollars possible could get more people having fun thinking about it, and some of them acting on it and pumping money into the poker economy. So overall, I think it's all a plus for everyone. More total fish for the other total fish to play so they don't lose too fast, more total fish to subsidize the learning process for earnest beginners so they don't go broke, etc., on up the line. Poker games I never have anything to do with could wind up benefitting me indirectly quite substantially, so I'm all for them, no matter how dumb they are.

[Shanemex]

I think they'll be earning a lot more on the mini steps than on the higher steps. I bought into one step 2 and I kicked around from step 2 to step 3 for eight touraments until I got busted down to a step 1. It was then I realized that they only award 1 seat to the $22 level even with a $50 prize pool. This way they're not even worth playing with a freeroll because you get stuck in a $5 tourney paying 20% rake over and over.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
heres the problem with paying 5 spots. it softens the bubble. all of the best players will not do as well as they should because people will not be as afraid of bubbling, because the pay difference isnt very much. the strategy of the game will change. not a LOT, but you wont be able to push every hand 4 handed anymore. and that sucks. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

While true, don't you think we get a second bubble effect with 3 players left since the 1st place pays so much?

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
heres the problem with paying 5 spots. it softens the bubble. all of the best players will not do as well as they should because people will not be as afraid of bubbling, because the pay difference isnt very much. the strategy of the game will change. not a LOT, but you wont be able to push every hand 4 handed anymore. and that sucks. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

While true, don't you think we get a second bubble effect with 3 players left since the 1st place pays so much?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, at least not in the few that I played. People were calling button and SB pushes with any ace and most Kings, trying to gamble for first.